Casual internet Sale turns into a Problem

My friend's son, Clay is 19 years old.  He is on one of those diesel website, forums, etc.  He reads a listing about a guy in another state this would like to purchase a turbo charger.  Clay calls the guy up.  Dave in Arizona - Clay is in Virginia.  Clay has a 1980 dodge cummings turbo charger and sells it to Dave for $250.00   Clay get the large priority mail box and packs it up and ships to Dave.  Clay paid for shipping.  Dave gets the turbo charger.  He emails Clay and tells him that the turbo charger is damaged.  He shows a photo of the box with a big smashed side, then show the turbo wheel has one bent fin out of the wheel.  Clay goes to the post office and talks to them with the photos.  The post office said they normally do not deliver a package if it is damaged to that degree.  Someone in Arizona could have delievered it anyway - but in Virginia they stop the shipment because it damaged a lot.  So Clay had emailed Dave and told him he was checking with the post office.  Dave is getting upset, wants a full refund and the money for him to ship it back to Clay BEFORE it is returned.   He wants the $250 plus then he will return the turbo charger.  Clay knows not to do this - and that the guy has to return the part then he could give him the $250 back but not pay for the shipping back.  Now Dave is starting to bully Clay.  He knows Clay is 19 and Dave is 32.  He has wrote an email - "don't be a chid and hide from the problem.  This is YOUR responsibility!  Be an adult, be professional and take care of this like a man.  I'm not sure what the problem on your end is?!"  Contact me.  Dave and his phone number. 

Since this transaction occurred casually over the phone - without any warranties, written or spoken, and just I have one and I will buy it - and then it turns into this issue.  What is the law on this type of situation?  Is Clay suppose to accept his return and refund the money?   Clay wants to do what he is legally suppose to do.  He would like to not have to take the turbo charger back and keep the money, but if he legally has to take the return then he will send Dave a specific email stating the return comes first then the refund. 

Dave is unemployed and age 32 living in Arizona.  Clay is the seller livign in Virginia age 19.  What is he legally obligated to do now?  Thank you.

Unfortunately, if Clay did not insure the package, it's Clay's responsibility to deliver it in good shape. If somebody else damaged it along the way then Clay has a right to seek compensation from that party but he still has a primary legal responsibility to his customer.

I can understand the customer's reluctance to send the package back to another state, but the standard practice for mail order is you send the package back to get the refund.

No mail order business that I've ever heard of sends the money without getting the package back and I don't think any court will require Clay to change that practice.

It's up to Clay, but he can choose to stand his ground and insist on the package return (which I suggest he put in writing) and then simply ignore the other guy until he sends it.

but that doesn't matter.  He's an adult.  Period.

They have a dispute that can potentially go to court.  Clay isn't obligated to just believe his buyer and send money back.  It's entirely possible the guy received a working item, grabbed pics off the Internet, and engaged in fraud.

The buyer likely has to sue Clay in Clay's state.  That's Clay's biggest leverage aside from already holding the money.

I hope you're not using these people's real names and info on the internet!

"but in Virginia they stop the shipment because it damaged a lot."

Not sure what this means;  are you saying the shipment WAS stopped in VA?  Or that they WOULD stop a damaged shipment?

No I gave them different names.  I think the event is easier to understand when using names instead of letters, person a, etc.  It is easier for me to tell the story I can say that for sure.

I think the answers given here have answered my questions about the situation.  What the post office said really makes no difference in the transaction.

"I think the answers given here have answered my questions about the situation"

If they had, clarification wouldn't be needed.

"What the post office said really makes no difference in the transaction."

Sure, it does.  If your PO backs up the buyer's story that the item was damaged before it got to him, "Clay" is responsible and needs to refund the money.  It's called "evidence". 

The fact that you don't want to clarify this point tells a lot.

And asking a 19 year-old to grow up and do the right thing is not "bullying".

Since it is not my kid and my friends' kid  - I was only trying to help her out with this by using this forum.  When I read what the guy wrote after Clay had sent him the nice email - I thought it was a rude response.  Clay had told him he was contacting the post office to see what they said about it.

Clay went to the post office with the photos that Kris emailed.  Now this post office is in Virginia.  Kris had the packaged delievered from the post office in Arizona.  The Virginia post office said if THEY received a package that damaged they would not have delivered it. 

So the post office in Arizona - we don't know what their policy is or not.  Arizona may be deliever anything in any condition - or it could be the same as Virginia's.  The wife could have thrown the box at the husband when she saw he ordered something and he is unemployed and the rent is due.  Who knows that part -

Also the wheel that has one fin bent is protected by a shaft on this turbo - so an odd thing to be damaged in a drop or drop on thing - but it could definitely happen.

My advice to her today - I told her what I would do - I would tell the guy to ship it back, postmarked by October 15th, and I would send him a money order for $250 refund.  He has to pay for the return shipping charges.  Clay paid for the original shipping charges.  That is just how I would handle it regardless of the law.  I mean it seems to be the fair thing to do.  I would want a date that it ended though - like the guy doesn't have to Christmas to ship it back - but enough time that gives him enough to at least get it together - pick a specific date about 15 days out for just to have it postmarked - that way he could ship it parcel post by the 15th and Clay would get it back maybe the 22nd or something.  ... That is my opinion and what I would do. 

It is up to my friend and her son to decide what they want to do.  I don't even live in Virginia - she and I grew up next door neighbors in Virginia - and best friends since then to now which is a long, long, long time.  I am only trying to find out the legal part for her. 

Yeah she does have a protective thing about her son.  He does need to grow up - his Dad died of a brain tumor when he was 12 and I think his Mom has tried to compensate for that by spoiling him too much since then.

"The Virginia post office said if THEY received a package that damaged they would not have delivered it. 

So the post office in Arizona - we don't know what their policy is or not"

Well, I would have to assume that -since all PO's are under the same federal system- their policies would have to be the same, not change with the jurisdiction.

Nice of you to help out your friend.  I would let this serve as a cautionary experience; there are a lot of crooks on the 'net (though it's not clear if recipient is one) and it's almost impossible to sort out long distance. 

 Good luck.

Post office in Virginia backs up the sellers story -

A little confusing again, there....are you reiterating that Va PO says they don't deliver damaged shipments?

They are not "backing" seller's story, but I doubt Va is any different than AZ in regards to delivering damaged shipments, as they are all under the same federal system -(reiteration on my part).

I found it extremely odd that a 32 year old man that has life experience woud ask for the full refund and the money to ship the item back - prior to shiping it back.  I don't know anywhere I can go and ask for that.  Call up Penney's and tell them send me money for the dress i don't like and the gas for me to get to the store and I will bring you the dress???  That is what bothered me the most about the entire situation. 

Virginia post office said they would never had delivered that box in that condition.  It looks like one entire corner is smushed to the middle - or it was run over - not minor damage - huge damage to this box.  I saw the photo of it and seems like what was in it should have been all bent up - not one fin on one wheel inside of the shaft??  I want to believe the guy in Arizona - but the little things like this bug me about it - still I would tell him to send it back for the money and check it over when I got it back.  I would put on a new wheel where the fin is bent and sale it local to someone.  Maybe up the price to cover the cost of the new part.  I think they are worth about $1500 new - this is very old though - 1980 I think she said.  I wish I could post the photos here. 

Actually, no one would want to pay full price and shipping for an item that arrived damaged; would you?  Assuming it WAS damaged upon arrival.

And reputable companies will accept returns of damaged (not "liking" an item is entirely different from "damaged") goods for a full refund.  Shipping is usually paid for by the buyer, not shipper in established mail order.

I think that at this point the post office really does not matter.

I would have the 32 year old ship the package back and when the 19 year old receives the package send a certified letter with the check stating that he is being refunded x dollars for the return of the product.