Employment Law - Pennsylvania

Re: Termination for medical condition

Beth3 — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 20:12:03 GMT

I thought that a reasonable accomidation could be made for me by transferring me into another position that did not have anything to do with patient care. I am even willing to take a paycut to do so.

That may well be a reasonable accommodation provided that (a) your employer has an available job opening for you and (b) you are qualified to perform the job (or would require only minimal training.) We can't know what jobs your employer has open and what your qualifications are for those jobs.

My suggestion is that you speak in person to your HR rep and inquire what jobs are currently available and discuss your potential qualifications. Good luck to you.

Re: Termination for medical condition

Drew — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:15:15 GMT

I'd take the point from taxagent and try to leverage it...

HR may not be trying very hard to find a place for you --and you may need to put a bit of polite pressure on them.

firmely ask in writing for an accomodation

suggest several possible ones--especially ones you have already done a bit of street research on as likley open or more people needed.. I'm sure taxagent is right they need not make a hole for you--but if there is a hole that you might fill somebody may need to apply more than BS to make sure you get in line for same. I think it would help if you can be pro active about possible fits--and leave your willingness to take a salary cut low key for now --find a workable hole first.

Some organizations take a bit of pride in hiring diversity --and to hire a handicapped person is a feather in that cap --now I know you don't see yourself as handicapped in that light--but if there is a possible fit of that shoe--you may need to remind them that they get a special feather in thier cap to accomodate you. Positive BS....

Last but not least--if you can get some sommprt from a handicapped advocate group or an attorney skilled in said area it might be useful to have a 3'd party put a bit of "enlightenment" on hospital senior HR --it might help--it could backfire--you decide.

I'd not make hollow threats ---but I think you havea possible point under ADA if your employer has holes and they don't bother to look IF you have requested an reasonable accomodation. Around me and many places, higher management runs in total fear of certain forms of discrimination claims --around me its sex and color--and we have bungled some whoppers and have a bit of oversensitivity and use high price counsel to double check even how to sneeze. If there is a fear card--well I'm sure you can address it low key --again it can backfire --so use some smarts.

Personally going back to my HR days I'd rather stretch a bit to try to accomode somebody with a problem not of his own making instead of dealing with folks who classify substance abuse as a handicap that needs to be accomodated and some of the other personal lifestyle problems that society wants others to "accomodate. "

Re: Termination for medical condition

ClydesMom — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 10:41:28 GMT

Jonsymm:
once I am seizure free I have to remain so for a periode of three to six months (not sure how they determine which one it is) before I can have my driving privliges restored.

Depending on state law your neurologist may have to fill out a form stating that you have been seizure free for the required time period. He will base this on his treatment of you during that time period. Did you go to the ER for seizures, did you call the office and report more, did family report more, unexplained MVA indicating a seizure may have been involved etc. All of those answers help a physician determine if a patient is truly seizure free. In addition is the patient compliant about taking their medication is another issue.

Some states don't require a physician statement and merely go on the honor system that when the patient states they are seizure free they take their word. So the patient merely waits the required time and if there is any question of honesty they DMV can request more information from a treating doctor.

That said, I would still speak with an employment law attorney. If this hospital system is this large there is certainly other positions they could possibly allow you to apply to instead of just terminating you. It can't hurt to explore this option. If an attorney reviews it and determines they are within the law then you at least know for certain.

Re: Termination for medical condition

Taxagent — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 07:29:54 GMT

Jonsymm:
They employ everyone from the doctors, nurses, plumbers, mechanics, cooks. Specificly at my job sometimes personal are cycled through a dispatching position which shcedules and dispathes routine transports( wheelchair, stretcher, and ambulance). I thought that a reasonable accomidation could be made for me by transferring me into another position that did not have anything to do with patient care. I am even willing to take a paycut to do so.

Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), a reasonable accomodation can include reassignment to a vacant position if the employee is unable to perform the essential functions of his/her present position. The EEOC enforcement guidance states:

"The ADA specifically lists 'reassignment to a vacant position' as a form of reasonable accommodation. This type of reasonable accommodation must be provided to an employee who, because of a disability, can no longer perform the essential functions of his/her current position, with or without reasonable accommodation, unless the employer can show that it would be an undue hardship.

An employee must be 'qualified' for the new position. An employee is 'qualified' for a position if s/he: (1) satisfies the requisite skill, experience, education, and other job-related requirements of the position, and (2) can perform the essential functions of the new position, with or without reasonable accommodation. The employee does not need to be the best qualified individual for the position in order to obtain it as a reassignment.

There is no obligation for the employer to assist the individual to become qualified. Thus, the employer does not have to provide training so that the employee acquires necessary skills to take a job. The employer, however, would have to provide an employee with a disability who is being reassigned with any training that is normally provided to anyone hired for or transferred to the position."

A key factor, though, is the statement in the first sentence about reassignment to a VACANT position. The employer does not need to create a new position for you; it is only obligated to reassign you to positions that the employer currently has open to fill.

You can read more on this at the EEOC web site here: Reassignment as a reasonable accommodation.

Re: Termination for medical condition

Jonsymm — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 03:15:27 GMT

Thanks again for all of your advice! And don't worry about me giving up, I learned somewhere in my travels that "YOU NEVER GIVE UP". Not to mention I have never backed down from a fight in my life and I am not about to start now.

Just for clarification I am a horrible BS'er. I just would like to keep my foot in the door at a company that I could transfer back into my EMS duties once cleared. As to the "deadwood" I agree that there is plenty of that where I work. However I suggested that I be transferred to dispatching (a job everyone else hates) but I am going to try again. Thanks again to everyone this makes me feel a little better then I did.

Jon

Re: Termination for medical condition

Drew — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 02:40:55 GMT

I agree that if you are not able to drive that thats pretty solid grounds to dismiss .

But on the flip side I've seen some truly masterful pieces of deadwood be given "light duty" jobs that essentially have little to no work attached --including a couple such roles at a local hospital (person has a favorite closet and sleeps for the day) None of this sounds like you--

But I think you might sort out if there are any disability activists /lawyers in your community--I just gotta think if you are a willing and able worker and pressure is put in moderately high places BEFORE you are exited that a lot off effort will be made to find you a productive role that does not require driving etc. But time is critical as I see it--once out there is less incentive to get you back aboard. Hey its probably worth a try.

Re: Termination for medical condition

LG81 — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 02:21:28 GMT

Wow, your response is quite thoughtful and refreshing.

Jonsymm:
Another point I need to clarify is that I work for a very large health care orginization that has several thousand employees and two hospitals, not to mention numerous other facitlies in the area. They employ everyone from the doctors, nurses, plumbers, mechanics, cooks. Specificly at my job sometimes personal are cycled through a dispatching position which shcedules and dispathes routine transports( wheelchair, stretcher, and ambulance). I thought that a reasonable accomidation could be made for me by transferring me into another position that did not have anything to do with patient care. I am even willing to take a paycut to do so.

This is helpful information. When you spoke with HR, did you indicate you were willing and able to take on any roles that could accomodate your condition until you are cleared? If you do so, you want to tread carefully. You come across as pretty intelligent, but it also sounds like life has thrown you some curveballs over the last couple of years, so you want to be extra careful in how you would approach this. Don't quote any laws or make a suggestion of the same. That would be for an attorney to handle.

Jonsymm:

As to other questions medication is avalible and I am currently taking some to control the seizures and move on with my life. However, according to the DOT, once I am seizure free I have to remain so for a periode of three to six months (not sure how they determine which one it is) before I can have my driving privliges restored.

How do they determine whether it's three or six months or somewhere in between? I have no idea. If a person really dug in, s/he may be able to get an idea; however, there is probably leeway in the DOT regs for subjective interpretation.

Jonsymm:
I don't even know if I qualify for anyother ones like SSD or not? How to go about figuring that out or applying? I JUST PLAN OLD NEED SOMEONE TO HELP ME FOR A CHANGE!!!!

From what little I know (which is very little), getting approved for SSD can be a lengthy process. Beyond the process of an initial claim, many folks are denied upon first application unless represented by an attorney. It can also be a tough roe to hoe. Since your vocation is also your passion (this is just a personal opinion and not a legal one), don't give up the fight to let the medication take it's course to get back to what you love.

Jonsymm:

Sorry for my rant, I reall do appearciate the information that you and Beth3 provided. Thank you so very much.

No apology needed. You're in a tough spot, and your response was thoughtful. You're in a difficult place, espeicially given that you were unemployed for a long period before this came about. Unless you are a great BS'er, your plea sounds sincere, and I wish you the best of luck.

Re: Termination for medical condition

Jonsymm — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 01:42:50 GMT

Let me start by saying thank you all for your information, it is very insightfull. I should have clarified in my earlier post. I have nor do I have any intention of driving nor working with a patient in an emergency situation, my job is to attempt to save lives not put them in harms way(especialy not for my own benifit). I have been in EMS for 10 yrs and plan to continue. Another point I need to clarify is that I work for a very large health care orginization that has several thousand employees and two hospitals, not to mention numerous other facitlies in the area. They employ everyone from the doctors, nurses, plumbers, mechanics, cooks. Specificly at my job sometimes personal are cycled through a dispatching position which shcedules and dispathes routine transports( wheelchair, stretcher, and ambulance). I thought that a reasonable accomidation could be made for me by transferring me into another position that did not have anything to do with patient care. I am even willing to take a paycut to do so. As long as I could keep some kind of income coming in to help support my wife and 2 yr old son. However I was told that I could not meet my job qualifications so I am to be terminated. Now all of that being said I don't know much about corprate law(and when I say much I mean anything really). Maybe that is not possible in PA.

As to other questions medication is avalible and I am currently taking some to control the seizures and move on with my life. However, according to the DOT, once I am seizure free I have to remain so for a periode of three to six months (not sure how they determine which one it is) before I can have my driving privliges restored.

So now you see my problem is I was already unemployed for a year and a half or more, and I am pretty sure I have run out of benifits there. I don't even know if I qualify for anyother ones like SSD or not? How to go about figuring that out or applying? I JUST PLAN OLD NEED SOMEONE TO HELP ME FOR A CHANGE!!!! And the job is not just a vocation, it is my passion, it's what I do, it's what I am good at! I like to help people that is why I am also a Firefighter in my hometown and Vol. on the local ambulance from time to time.

Sorry for my rant, I reall do appearciate the information that you and Beth3 provided. Thank you so very much.

Re: Termination for medical condition

LG81 — Thu, 15 Mar 2012 01:02:45 GMT

I agree with Beth3's response. Additionally, please consider although the doctor released you medically to perform you other duties (meaning no harm to you), I cannot imagine what exactly would happen if you were in the middle of a life-and-death situation with a patient and had a seizure. Wouldn't that interrupt not only your duties but also hinder one or more of your team's ability to treat? At a minimum, they would be -1 (you) in functioning as a team. In a life-and-death situation, even 20 seconds (a common length of time for absent seizures) could make a difference. The employer cannot send an extra person along on all your rides to cover in case you seize; that would not be a reasonable accomodation.

I am very sorry for your illness, especially if working on the ambulance is more than just a vocation but is also your passion. Does the doctor think that, with medication, you will be able to become seizure free and return to driving and your other duties?

There are many factors involved in the ADA regulations, that I won't go through in this response (such as size of company, etc), but the one of the most important factors that could come into play for you is whether the employer can provide reasonable accomodation. If they cannot, then termination would be legal.

Re: Termination for medical condition

Beth3 — Wed, 14 Mar 2012 19:26:00 GMT

I found information that says termination due to disabilities is discrimination and illegal. You either didn't read far enough or misunderstood what you read. Regardless of any disability an individual has, he or she still needs to be able to perform the essential functions of his or her job. If driving an ambulance is an essential function (and I would fully expect it is), then your employer may lawfully terminate you for your inability to perform your job.

I'm sorry about your medical condition however it appears that a job involving driving (and subsequently the safety of yourself, your passengers and the public) is not for you.

Termination for medical condition

Jonsymm — Wed, 14 Mar 2012 19:13:43 GMT

I have recently begun to have absent seizures and as a result my drivers licence was suspended. As I work on an ambulance my employer is now saying that I am unable to preform my job duties as assigned, while driving is only one of the functions that I am not able to preform. After talking with my Human resources representitive I am sure that I am going to lose my job all together. To add to that I have only been with the company for 9 months and have not put in enough hours for FMLA. Can they terminate me for that? I found information that says termination due to disabilities is discrimination and illegal. Need some input.