fired for "insubordination" in MI

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Latest post 09-08-2011 2:54 PM by Drew. 7 replies.
  • 09-08-2011 1:50 PM

    • tbass
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    fired for "insubordination" in MI

    My son was just fired from his job for what his employer has termed "insubordination". He's still in a "daze" over what happened; when he asked what they meant by "insubordination" they told him that "the subject was not open for discussion". Per his conversation with me right after it happened, he claims that he never received a warning for anything while working, never was written-up for anything, got along with everyone (including his superiors) and worked all hours of the day and week when they asked him to. He was there for 2 months, working 6-7 days a week. He has never refused an assignment. The interesting thing that he told me after just starting at this place was that fellow workers told him to mind his P & Q's, don't make "friends" with anyone and keep to yourself- the place has a reputation for letting people go on the drop of a hat. They employ about 100 people at any one time (they are an industrial contractor). I always thought that when you fire anyone for whatever reason, it needs to be documented and the terminated employee told EXACTLY why he/she was fired. They wouldn't even give him a reason/cause for same. I'd appreciate any info that you could pass my way. For the record, we're in Michigan. Thanks to all who reply.

  • 09-08-2011 2:00 PM In reply to

    • LG81
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    Re: fired for "insubordination" in MI

    tbass:
    always thought that when you fire anyone for whatever reason, it needs to be documented and the terminated employee told EXACTLY why he/she was fired. They wouldn't even give him a reason/cause for same.

    There is no legal requirement for providing documentation or being told exactly what the terminable offense was.  I believe all your son can do at this point is just reflect back on his experience and learn from it.  Although he worked all of the required hours and assignments, there could have been a single instance (or more than one instance) where he didn't carry out his duties in the way instructed.  Since the employer has a bad reputation, he may not have done anything at all, but the company can still terminate at-will for any reason or no reason at all (unless it is because of a reason prohibted by law such as various forms of discrimination, etc.).

  • 09-08-2011 2:01 PM In reply to

    Re: fired for "insubordination" in MI

    tbass:
    I always thought that when you fire anyone for whatever reason, it needs to be documented and the terminated employee told EXACTLY why he/she was fired.

    Nope.

    Not true.

    An employee can be fired for any reason or no reason at all, as long as there is no violation of anti-discrimination laws.

    Have your son file for unemployment and look for another job.

     

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  • 09-08-2011 2:02 PM In reply to

    • cbg
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    Re: fired for "insubordination" in MI

    Sorry, but you are mistaken.

    There is no law in any state that prohibits firings without documentation and no law in any state that demands an employee be given the exact reason for termination. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with the practice of firing without documentation but there is no legal requirement that there be any.

    Based solely on what you have posted, your son's termination may have been unfair but it was legal.


    Google, at-will employment

  • 09-08-2011 2:06 PM In reply to

    • Drew
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    Re: fired for "insubordination" in MI

    In general you can be fired for not wearing green socks and need not be told exactly why you were fired.

    Was your son hourly and was he properly paid OT for all the time he worked?

    If your sons total time her and with prior employers meets the  criterial for UC I suggest he file for same promptly and NOT say he was fired for insubordination which sounds like an admission of cause--but merely state he was "fired." .

    If employer wants to debate reasons, the employer has primary burden to show it was for cause --a to merely make a mistake  like reading a print wrong and cutting a board 2' too short is generally not "cause."



  • 09-08-2011 2:09 PM In reply to

    • tbass
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    Re: fired for "insubordination" in MI

    However, the reason for termination (insubordination) remains on his employment record. It would seem that anyone checking his job references could come across this and immediately toss his application believing that he's an "undesirable" hire.

  • 09-08-2011 2:24 PM In reply to

    • LG81
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    Re: fired for "insubordination" in MI

    Drew:

    If your sons total time her and with prior employers meets the  criterial for UC I suggest he file for same promptly and NOT say he was fired for insubordination which sounds like an admission of cause--but merely state he was "fired." .

    I don't mean to jump on you at at all, but the diffences between "for cause" and "misconduct" when it comes to UIC are different, and this has been pointed out to you numerous times by other posters.

     

  • 09-08-2011 2:54 PM In reply to

    • Drew
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    Re: fired for "insubordination" in MI

    In terms of words, correct---to be fired for "misconduct " of a form and nature as addressed in MI is what it takes to be disqualified to collect UC from said employer.  And not every mistake or gripe or question  rises to any such level.

     

    But I think any applicant for UC would be wise to avoid a word like "insubordination" as it sure invites others to jump to conclusion that  it is a form of serious misconduct or an admission of same. .



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