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Seperate Property Lien

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Latest post Wed, Nov 2 2016 11:10 AM by MasterBlaster1. 19 replies.
  • Sat, Oct 29 2016 9:11 PM

    Seperate Property Lien

    I am going through a divorce and I had seperate property but I was secretly having an affair with a supposed investor for the last two years and I got scammed out of the money I had that is seperate property. Can the courts still put a lien on me even though I don't have the money anymore as I got ripped off.

  • Sun, Oct 30 2016 6:11 AM In reply to

    • Drew
      Consumer
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Mar 30 2000
    • PA
    • Posts 51,431

    Re: Seperate Property Lien

    Ask your divorce lawyer.......I don't think separate property if it's truly separate property is a factor to be divided in divorce.....but if you squandered community property as part of adultry ....your STBX may find the courts empathetic to her point of view and award her a large portion of the community pot .....



  • Sun, Oct 30 2016 9:50 AM In reply to

    Re: Seperate Property Lien

    MasterBlaster1:
    I had seperate property

    What property?

    MasterBlaster1:
    I got scammed out of the money I had that is seperate property

    What money?

    MasterBlaster1:
    Can the courts still put a lien on me

    A lien on you for what?

     

    You've got a lot more explaining to do before anybody can make any helpful comments.

    • The right of the people 
    • to keep and bear arms,
    • shall not be infringed.
  • Sun, Oct 30 2016 2:58 PM In reply to

    Re: Seperate Property Lien

    Ok, Let me try this again so it can be clearer.

     

    My state is a no fault state and in my state it is a community property state that looks at seperate property as no community property, but my state allows the spouse to put a lien on the seperate property for spousal support. I was awarded a lawsuit 4 years ago for pain and suffering and in my state pain and suffering is absolute with seperate property.

     

    My dillema here is I cannot find any case law nationwide that gives guidance on my situation. As stated before I was having an affair and this person sold themsleves as a professional investor. I invested times before and got good returns and this was my lover for the last 2 1/2 years. So I was convinced that I could get around a 20% return in 3 years on 250k of my seperate property money. So I gave it and this person dissapered and I cannot locate.

    So my question is can the spouse still somewhow put a lien on community proeprty for the money I lost in seperate property?

  • Sun, Oct 30 2016 9:55 PM In reply to

    Re: Seperate Property Lien

    MasterBlaster1:
    So my question is can the spouse still somewhow put a lien on community proeprty for the money I lost in seperate property?

    Having myself been divorce in a community property state I see a couple of issues.

    You say the $250,000 was your separate property (cash, I assume) but you've been married for a while, you've invested it periodically.

    At some point you may have inadvertently converted it to marital property. Even if you didn't, your wife can claim that you did, claim that you wasted a marital asset and claim $125,000 worth from your half of any community property that you might have been entitled to.

    I spent two years in litigation with my ex because of a house that I owned prior to marriage where we had a similar argument. We ended up settling so the argument became moot since my half of everything was quite satisfactory.

    So, yes, it's entirely possibly that you are at risk of losing part of your share of community property depending on what your wife claims and how good her attorney is.

     

     

    • The right of the people 
    • to keep and bear arms,
    • shall not be infringed.
  • Mon, Oct 31 2016 7:17 AM In reply to

    Re: Seperate Property Lien

    I apprecite your response but it would not be a marital asset. I am looking for fellow experts on this issue.

  • Mon, Oct 31 2016 8:22 AM In reply to

    • DOCAR
      Lawyer
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Sat, Dec 9 2000
    • NV
    • Posts 5,478

    Re: Seperate Property Lien

    You are then going to need a Texas family law attorney, as Texas community property law is unique to Texas.

  • Mon, Oct 31 2016 8:35 AM In reply to

    Re: Seperate Property Lien

    MasterBlaster1:

    I apprecite your response but it would not be a marital asset.

    You missed my point. YOU say it wasn't a marital asset and basically asked if you were at risk. My response basically said, yes, you are at risk.

    That means your wife might be able to prove it became a marital asset. You might be able to prove that it didn't.

    MasterBlaster1:

    I am looking for fellow experts on this issue.

    Experts on this issue are called "lawyers."

    You are likely to need one.

     

    • The right of the people 
    • to keep and bear arms,
    • shall not be infringed.
  • Mon, Oct 31 2016 10:48 AM In reply to

    Re: Seperate Property Lien

    I suppose that depends on what exactly you mean by "put a lien on me."

    Liens are placed on property, not on persons.  If someone scammed you out of separate property, that shouldn't be of any relevance in a divorce.  However, if you don't convince the court that the money in question was, in fact, separate property, then the court may take it into account, to your detriment, when dividing community property.

  • Mon, Oct 31 2016 10:51 AM In reply to

    Re: Seperate Property Lien

    MasterBlaster1:
    in my state pain and suffering is absolute with seperate property.

    An award for pain and suffering starts out as separate property, but it can be converted to community property if you collect on the award and commingle the money with community property money.

     

    MasterBlaster1:
    I cannot find any case law nationwide

    Case law from any state other than your state will be of little, if any, use to you.

  • Mon, Oct 31 2016 1:15 PM In reply to

    Re: Seperate Property Lien

    Correct me if I'm wrong:

    (1) you owe your ex court-ordered spousal-support money which you didn't pay when you were supposed to, or possibly you have been paying until now but are considering whether to keep making those payments or not (maybe you don't think you can afford to keep paying her).

    (2 version "a") you want to know whether your ex can lien the account in which you kept your pain-and-suffering money, OR

    (2 version "b") you want to know whether your ex can place a lien on any of your other property in her efforts to get her spousal-support money.

    If it's version "a", I have a question of my own.  Why do you care if your ex files a lien against your empty bank- or investment account?

    If it's version "b", that question makes a little more sense, and I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.  In fact, even if you still had your pain-and-suffering money I'd think your ex could choose to place liens on any of your property that isn't specifically protected by law from such liens.  I am not familiar with Texas law, but usually pension, disability, and Social Security income is protected.

     

  • Mon, Oct 31 2016 5:18 PM In reply to

    Re: Seperate Property Lien

    Thank you for the information.

     I wrote the UJI for the pain and suffering verdict I got from the jury, which the jury granted as  pain and suffering damage and therefore I do now have the judgement as it was never vacated. The money was never co-mingled and placed in a seperate account and there is plenty of trace bank statements to show so, it never transmuted.My counsel is now a District Judge and the opposing is a appelate court judge so if I had to I would have them testify to it but they would frown on the lower court making them do this.

    I was just unclear what happens with this situation I have. I was thinking that there would be no way for a lien on the sperate property as it doesn't exist anymore.

     

     

     

  • Mon, Oct 31 2016 5:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Seperate Property Lien

    None of the above.

    I am more concerned if the court can put a community lien based on the seperate property that is no longer available. I have to come up wth a defense for this.

  • Tue, Nov 1 2016 8:54 AM In reply to

    Re: Seperate Property Lien

    MasterBlaster1:
    I wrote the UJI for the pain and suffering verdict I got from the jury, which the jury granted as  pain and suffering damage and therefore I do now have the judgement as it was never vacated.

    I have no idea what a "UJI" might be, but I'm not sure that this is relevant to anything I previously wrote.

     

    MasterBlaster1:
    I was just unclear what happens with this situation I have.

    As I wrote previously, if someone scammed you out of money that was separate property -- and assuming the court accepts that it was separate property -- then it should have no relevance in your divorce.

     

    MasterBlaster1:
    I was thinking that there would be no way for a lien on the sperate property as it doesn't exist anymore.

    Logical.  However, if the court did not accept that the money was separate property, it could require that you account for it in the division of community property.

  • Tue, Nov 1 2016 11:41 AM In reply to

    Re: Seperate Property Lien

    Not a problem. A UJI in my state is known as a Universal Jury Instruction.

    I agree with you that if the court ruled against me on the seperate proeprty issue then I have a problem and I am aware of that argument, but I am very confident that the UJI because it says so in the jury instruction is more than enough to declare it as the presumption of seperate property.

    Thanks for your input.

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