Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

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Latest post Mon, Jan 30 2017 5:50 AM by Drew. 14 replies.
  • Sat, Jan 28 2017 7:00 AM

    • Drew
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    Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

    GIven that some 35 years ago the SCOUS in "Plyler " mandated not only that children who had entered US illegally were entitled nonetheless to a free public education but also that schools were bound to a don't ask don't tell status as to visa issues even for those who did enter legally , defacto creating a sanctory status for public schools. 

    IS there any light on the horizon as to enforcement of the ban on visitors with B status from enrollment  or enforcement of the rather specific and limited conditions for F enrollment  in public schools ? 

    The last story I was about any attempt to address B issues was 10 years ago the folks in Elmwood Il were threated with a ban on statewide athletic participation for the mere gumption  to address the law as written , of course they caved.  ( and cut off of funds ) 

    Yes, the rules were tightened cira 1996 and again as part of Patriot Act .....but where is enforcement if everyone hides behind we are not allowed to ask? 

     



  • Sat, Jan 28 2017 10:45 AM In reply to

    Re: Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

    In Plyler v. Doe, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that states and school districts could not deny education to illegal alien children residing within their borders. More specifically, the decision allowed illegal alien children, who reside in a school district, to attend grades K-12 at a public school on the same terms as resident children who are American citizens.  It is the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) (20 U.S.C. § 1232g; 34 CFR Part 99)  that protects the privacy of student education records including their immigration status. The law applies to all schools that receive funds under an applicable program of the U.S. Department of Education. 

    While the parents of these children may be undocumented immigrants, that doesn't alway mean the children, themselves are.  Further, those parents work and pay taxes and buy groceries and gas and pay for utilities that support the local economies of the communities they reside in...

  • Sat, Jan 28 2017 2:07 PM In reply to

    • Drew
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    Re: Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

    Yes, but that's NOT my question. Illegal ,entrants are entitled to a free public education...so be it......but LEGAL entrants on a B ( tourist   visa )  or F visa are NOT. ( unless the F person complies with prepaid tuition at an approved institution  and was not out of status along the way)  Persons  on a B or F are not residents .   The Patriot Act amends some of the FERPA requirements.

    MY secondary concern is that in some states like mine, charter schools can enroll just about any warm form and get paid very well for same without proof that the student in fact meets the requirements to enroll in the host / paying district ..or is even still there. 

     



  • Sat, Jan 28 2017 2:49 PM In reply to

    Re: Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

    Immigrants can attend public schools through 12th grade.  They can attend colleges or universities but if they are undocumented, it's not automatic.  F visas are students.  If a parent has an F-1, they can get an F-2 for their child to attend school.  TOURISTS aren't supposed to send their kids to school because they are just visiting, but if they overstay, obviously they may.  In some schools the hang up is the SSN as some schools often require those.  It's not easy, but an immigrant can get non-work one with a birth certificate.  Charter schools are private and can do what the want.  Your complaint is just one of the many down-sides to those programs.

  • Sat, Jan 28 2017 3:59 PM In reply to

    • Drew
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    Re: Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

    I'm missing something ?  PLyler applies to children who entered illegally.   A B visa holder enters  legally ..now he of she may chose to violate terms of visit ..but nonetheless they entered legally! 

    In my state, PA, the  charters  are all public entities ( with exception of one charter issued about 1698 by Wm Penn ) 

    And PA Supreme Court in Slippery Rock sort of split the baby and said we don't address who the charters may enroll..we are addresssing that they do not get paid to enroll students who do not qualify for enrollment in the sending district .  issue was enrolling kids too young for sending / paying district . 

    Obviously a tourist does not meet criteria to enroll. Nor can a F holder enroll in a public school below grade 9.

    And a F is only applicable for one year at public school ..and it must be at an approved school and paid in advance . .. but PA law prohibits a tuition charge by a charter . 

     

     



  • Sat, Jan 28 2017 4:40 PM In reply to

    • Drew
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    Re: Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

    I would agree that F -2 children dependents of a valid F-1 holder may attend school k -12 ...but they are nonimigrants and are subject to the tuition payment rules of the district in which they reside if they chose public schools ....? 



  • Sat, Jan 28 2017 6:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

    A F-1 visa holder, IS an immigrant.  Their child IS an immigrant.  The child can attend a K-12 public school where they live the same as any other resident of that school district.

  • Sat, Jan 28 2017 9:21 PM In reply to

    Re: Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

    Drew:
    I'm missing something ?  PLyler applies to children who entered illegally.   A B visa holder enters  legally ..now he of she may chose to violate terms of visit ..but nonetheless they entered legally! 

    Pyler specifically addressed illegal (or, to use the PC term of the day, undocumented) aliens because that was the group of students specifically targeted by the state statute challenged in the case. But the court’s reasoning applies to all immigrants, not just illegal immigrants. If the state cannot bar illegal/undocumented aliens because of their immigration status neither can they deny legal aliens because of their immigration status, either. 

  • Sun, Jan 29 2017 7:17 AM In reply to

    • Drew
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    Re: Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

    What am I missing ...to secure an F-1 requires an I-20 which is a certificate among other things of NONimmigrant status ?   ( plus paying tuition up front in an approved institution ) 

    Even the convoluted musings from our Harrisburg  state capitol and dept of education  address that students must comply with F Visa requirement except one is not allowed to ask. . 

     



  • Sun, Jan 29 2017 7:41 AM In reply to

    • Drew
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    Re: Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

    State code is a bit of circular logic .. you cannot get an F-1 without FIrst an I 20 ?  And a B Visa is a nonimmigrant ....

    .PA Code 11.11

     (d)  Immigration status. A child’s right to be admitted to school may not be conditioned on the child’s immigration status. A school may not inquire regarding the immigration status of a student as part of the admission process. This provision does not relieve a student who has obtained an F-1 visa from the student’s obligation to pay tuition under Federal law.



  • Sun, Jan 29 2017 11:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

    Drew:
    And a B Visa is a nonimmigrant

    You keep saying that but you're not understanding.  If a parent on a B-visa is enrolling their child in school, they are out of status and thus an undocumented immigrant.  You're either a citizen or an immigrant.

  • Sun, Jan 29 2017 3:41 PM In reply to

    • Drew
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    Re: Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

    i know I'm dense..but the regs as to B-1 or B-2 seem pretty clear that such a lawful visitor who has entered lawfully  is prohibited from enrolling in a course of study ..67  FR 18062 .

    B sort of requires you maintain a residency elsewhere to which you intend to return 

    Plyler until and unless it is changed applies essentially to persons who entered illegally ?   Illegal  entrants are entitled to,a free education ...so be it .     Something like 10 million B visa applications per year, 1 million F visas of which 100 K are for high school students ...and well over. 10,000 instutions on the approved lists ...and over 700 in my state, PA ...... 

    I don't follow at all...in addition to being a citizen or immigrant there are a whole list of visa status ..including. B visitor. And F and M student.  

    And post the Patriot Act it reads like a B1 or B2 holder must follow  the steps to get an F or M Visa prior to enrolling  in educational instution OR leave US and reapply for F or M  student visa at local embassy ? 

     

     

     



  • Sun, Jan 29 2017 5:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

    "Enrollment in a course of study" mean college level.  Children enroll into a school grade, not a course of study.

  • Sun, Jan 29 2017 5:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

    Drew:
    Plyler until and unless it is changed applies essentially to persons who entered illegally ?

    You are not paying attention to what I explained to you. The reasoning of the Court applies to ALL aliens, regardless of immigration status. Whether the alien is lawfully present in the U.S. or not does not matter because the state cannot discriminate based on that.

    Drew:
    I don't follow at all...in addition to being a citizen or immigrant there are a whole list of visa status ..including. B visitor. And F and M student.  

    One is either a citizen or alien. All foreign persons in the U.S. on any visa status are aliens. The Supreme Court ruling essentially says that whether the student is a U.S. citizen, legal alien, or illegal alien doesn't matter because the state cannot discriminate in providing public school benefits based on the person’s immigration status. I know you get deeply wound up about public school issues in Pennsylvania, but this is one you aren’t going to win. 

  • Mon, Jan 30 2017 5:50 AM In reply to

    • Drew
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    Re: Public school enforcement of B / F visa holder enrollment i

    Unfortunately you are darn likely right .   Our public school system is a sponge full of holes and abuses depending on eye of beholder or user .... no wonder the costs are soaring .      Locally we seem unable to sort out that Clifton, NJ is not in Pa or that a storefront church is not likely a residence 



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