Has my plumber breached our contract?

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Latest post Fri, Mar 31 2017 11:37 AM by TR28. 30 replies.
  • Tue, Mar 28 2017 12:27 PM In reply to

    • Arthur3
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    Re: Has my plumber breached our contract?

    TR28:
    Since the plumber did not "fight" for the job by trying to talk my mother out of firing him, since the plumber did not try to appeal to me to talk to my mother about this, and since the plumber just came and picked up his tools, it can be said that the plumber "agreed" that he should not be working this project. In other words, my mother's actions and the plumber's actions, collectively, constitute a mutual dissolution of the contract.

    You can spin it any way you want, the fact is that your mother fired him.

    Good plumbers are in high demand.They do not have to waste their time talking someone out of fireing them.

  • Tue, Mar 28 2017 12:36 PM In reply to

    • TR28
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    Re: Has my plumber breached our contract?

    "Good plumbers are in high demand.They do not have to waste their time talking someone out of fireing them."

    They do if they want to sue for breach of contract.


  • Tue, Mar 28 2017 12:46 PM In reply to

    • Drew
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    Re: Has my plumber breached our contract?

    GIven a written $13500 contract ...I'd not be so,quick to,assume there was mutual dissolution of the contract ...Mom unilaterally threw him off the job........



  • Tue, Mar 28 2017 12:47 PM In reply to

    • TR28
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    Re: Has my plumber breached our contract?

    "GIven a written $13500 contract ...I'd not be so,quick to,assume there was mutual dissolution of the contract ...Mom unilaterally threw him off the job........"

     

    How in the world would this guy win a breach-of-contract lawsuit when I called him just minutes later and told him that he was not fired and he ignored me?



  • Tue, Mar 28 2017 1:51 PM In reply to

    • Drew
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    Re: Has my plumber breached our contract?

    He was already fired by mom ...so why would he believe you unilaterally rehired him ...bewteen you and Mom I'd probably walk too....and just for laughs look up mechanics liens for your state  

    Good luck at getting a licensed plumber to complete this job without a whopping extra $ in the pot ....



  • Tue, Mar 28 2017 2:30 PM In reply to

    Re: Has my plumber breached our contract?

    TR28:
    How in the world would this guy win a breach-of-contract lawsuit when I called him just minutes later and told him that he was not fired and he ignored me?

    This is at least the second time you've asked this question.  The answer is that, if your mother's firing of the plumber was a breach (and I think it was, but not so much that I'd say it is a certainty), then your subsequent actions could not change that.  However, when there is a breach, the non-breaching party typically has an obligation to mitigate damages, and your attempt to "un-fire" the plumber could allow you to successfully assert a defense that the plumber failed to mitigate damages.

    This thread has no become a serious example of overthinking and overanalyzing things.  Time to move on and find someone else to complete the work.

  • Tue, Mar 28 2017 3:15 PM In reply to

    • TR28
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    Re: Has my plumber breached our contract?

    I should mention that, in addition to leaving the job and breaching (or not breaching) the contract, this plumber has behaved in shady and dishonest ways.

     

    Here are two examples:

    1) During the course of his work, the plumber discovered that he would have to do some work on the pipes under the floor of out utility room. This work would require the removal of some asbestos-containing floor tiles. The plumber offered to do this work for no additional charge, even though the contract would allow him to charge us extra for this "unforeseen" work.

    So, what's the problem? Well, the plumber is NOT certified for asbestos removal, and it is against federal law for a non-certified person to remove asbestos. The plumber told us that, if he did the asbestos removal himself, we should not tell our municipality that he, a non-certified person, was removing asbestos. If the municipalitry found out, the municipality would force us to hire a certified person, which would cost a huge sum of money. Basically, this plumber was going to be doing something illegal, and he wanted us to help him cover it up. 

    Well, my mother and I knew the dangers of asbestos, and we insisted that a certified guy remove the asbestos. A certified guy did come in and give us an estimate. However, the plumber left the project before any utility-room work began. After the plumber left the project, we told the municipality's building inspector that this plumber was going to be doing something illegal, and that he wanted us to help him cover it up.  

     

    2) When my mother and I told the plumber that our homeowners insurance would not cover a sewer pipe that was damaged through ordinary wear and tear, the plumber suggested that he and his subordinate could damage the pipe, to make it appear as if the pipe had been damaged in some way other than ordinary wear and tear.

    In other words, this plumber was proposing insurance fraud. My mother and I did not go along with this.

     

    So, if this plumber wants to sue us, we'll be happy to reveal all of the above in court.

  • Tue, Mar 28 2017 5:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Has my plumber breached our contract?

    WHY would he sue you?  He's been paid more than what he earned and he doesn't have to deal with you.  Since he didn't do anything about the asbestos and he didn't damage the already faulty pipes, what you allege he said really isn't relevant. 

  • Tue, Mar 28 2017 7:25 PM In reply to

    • TR28
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    Re: Has my plumber breached our contract?

    "WHY would he sue you?  He's been paid more than what he earned and he doesn't have to deal with you."

    Some responders here have said that the plumber could sue my mother and me for breach of contract.

    And the illegal stuff that he proposed would certainly be usable in court to damage his credibility.

  • Wed, Mar 29 2017 5:20 AM In reply to

    • Drew
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    Re: Has my plumber breached our contract?

    Well, the contract says you pay extra for all extras, and if he  calls in a certified sub to remove a few floor tiles at say $3500, you get to pay for that and must to complete the job!  Could easily sound like you tried to induce him to remove a few tiles as part of job and/or you failed to take steps necessary so he could continue the work

    Your threat to report him to law enforcement re tile removal so as to extract performance of something begins to to read like extortion...and that's a crime 

    In many a trade, one contractor will call another ...and if any other reputable contractor contacts this plumber , the next plumber may avoid you...or go for a massive upcharge .

    If your sewer line has failed....you may be on borrowed time as to habitable quarters. 

    A mechanics lien requires that he follow the steps ..not that he sue you just now .

    I agree with others ..we are now into over study ..

     

     

     



  • Wed, Mar 29 2017 10:00 AM In reply to

    • TR28
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    Re: Has my plumber breached our contract?

    "Well, the contract says you pay extra for all extras, and if he  calls in a certified sub to remove a few floor tiles at say $3500, you get to pay for that and must to complete the job!  Could easily sound like you tried to induce him to remove a few tiles as part of job and/or you failed to take steps necessary so he could continue the work"

     

    What are you talking about? He is the one who surprised us with this tile business after we had already signed the contract. And he offered to remove the tiles for no additional charge without us even asking him. We did not want him handling the tiles because he was not certified. 

     

    "Your threat to report him to law enforcement re tile removal so as to extract performance of something begins to to read like extortion...and that's a crime"

     

    I said that I would bring up his actions in court, if he attempted to sue us. I never said that I was going to extort a performance out of him.

     

    "In many a trade, one contractor will call another ...and if any other reputable contractor contacts this plumber , the next plumber may avoid you...or go for a massive upcharge"

    If the first plumber says something false to another plumber, I will sue the first plumber for defamation.

     

    "If your sewer line has failed....you may be on borrowed time as to habitable quarters."

    Things are working fine for now.

  • Wed, Mar 29 2017 1:45 PM In reply to

    • Drew
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    Re: Has my plumber breached our contract?

    Never ran a plumbing operatin but did run a rather large electrical,contracting operation long ago ...and did communicate with some peers ......rest assured in that circle folks might avoid you like the plague wo a single vit of  libel uttered ...and yes there were some jobs where the " issues " with possible PCBs were such we just would not respond....You may have cooked your own goose as to licensed plumbers ..... in my area,  don't know about yours , on my own personal home I can dig my own ditch and make sewer connections on my own property ....no fun...it probably takes old fashioned 9th  grade skills ..



  • Wed, Mar 29 2017 2:06 PM In reply to

    • TR28
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    Re: Has my plumber breached our contract?

    "You may have cooked your own goose as to licensed plumbers"

    In that case, I'll cook his goose and reveal all his dishonest behavior to the licensing agency.

     

    "I can dig my own ditch and make sewer connections on my own property ....no fun...it probably takes old fashioned 9th  grade skills .."

    Well, if only my mother and I still had the bodies and physical fitness that we had when we were in the 9th grade.

    Do you really expect me and my mother to do this ourselves? Get real, dude.

     


  • Wed, Mar 29 2017 3:20 PM In reply to

    Re: Has my plumber breached our contract?

    TR28:
    In that case, I'll cook his goose and reveal all his dishonest behavior to the licensing agency.

    It's your word against his since he took no action to do anything with the asbestos issue.  He can just as easily say they asked me to do it and I said no.  I don't know why this thread is continuing since your question was did he breach the contract which was answered days ago.  Ask for the return of the unearned deposit and move on.

  • Thu, Mar 30 2017 10:24 AM In reply to

    • TR28
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    Re: Has my plumber breached our contract?

    "It's your word against his since he took no action to do anything with the asbestos issue.  He can just as easily say they asked me to do it and I said no."

     

    Well, from that standpoint, it's his word against my mother's word that she fired him. She can say that she was simply complaining about his work hours, and that she did NOT tell him that he should not come.


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