Property Transfer Timeline

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Latest post 11-29-2008 12:35 PM by Kris11. 10 replies.
  • 11-25-2008 12:16 PM

    • Kris11
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    Property Transfer Timeline

    I live in Kansas. My mother signed her house over to me and my wife in February 2004. Almost at the same time, she had an accident in her home and was hospitalized and subsequently entered into a nursing home (assisted living), and has been there since then. She had long term health care coverage but that coverage will soon run out. I'm preparing to set her up on SRS to pay for her medical bills and nursing home care. In Kansas I know that there is a time frame pertaining to property transfer and I need to know if I'm about to lose my/her home. I think the time from deed transfer is 5 years in Kansas, but I was told by a lawyer, in passing conversation, it might be as little as 3 years.
    Can someone help give me some encouraging news?

    Thanks
  • 11-25-2008 12:33 PM In reply to

    • Drew
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    re: Property Transfer Timeline

    There may be three separate issues --and

    one is how long you can sit on a deed w/o recording it--I'm not sure why you sat on the ded all this time.

    two, is when is a deed transfer effective in your state--upon delivery to new holder OR upon recording of same--that answer could be critical, see three. (Pray it applies to deed delivery and Mom delivered and dated deed back in 04.)

    three, for purpoes of MEDICAID under prior law there was a 3 year lookback, but that changed in Feb 2004 to a 5 year lookback so it is critical as to exactly when her transfer took place--and turn summersaults to get it right before you fill out any forms for assistance!!!!

    Ergo if the transfer was pre 2004 its only a 3 year lookback and the asset seems out of her estate.
    But if its a recent, post Feb 2004, transfer you may well be stuck with a 5 year lookback --and that has draconian results if you trip over it.

    And it could get more complex if Mom preserved a written life estate.

    NOTE common sense doesn't always apply and a date as to creditors standing for recording may not be the critical date for change of ownership--its pretty darn state specific --and in my state I think both dates would apply for different purposes thus giving some latitude to picking only hte date I needed to disclose and cross my fingers. But above all don't give out "wrong" dates and try to patch it later---do your homework first.



  • 11-25-2008 12:44 PM In reply to

    • Kris11
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    re: Property Transfer Timeline

    The deed/title to the house was done at the same time....It has been in my name with the county/state all this time.

    So I guess it will mean I'm looking at a 5 year lookback since it's Medicaid we're talking about.
    Guess I better find a way to come up with some money to keep her bills current til AFTER the 5 years, huh?
  • 11-25-2008 12:49 PM In reply to

    • Drew
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    re: Property Transfer Timeline

    The root of your interest may hinge on the date you managed to record the title (Apparentlyin KS you can sit of title for decades w/o recording it--but at your peril)

    But that does NOT necessarily answer when Mom delivered her interest to you--and I suggest you use skilled resources so as not to jump to bad answer if there is a defendable good answer!

    Many places deed delivery is valid as to interests among those two parties-I don't know as for KS.

    The recording statutues are generally there to set out who has what priority and the issue of notice to the world--not to sort out Medicaid sequences.

    Conside a different issue for time parallels

    I sell you my farm in KS, you pay in full, but you sit on delivered deed and don't record it. Somebody gets hurt on farm and owner is liable--is that me or you ?



  • 11-25-2008 12:51 PM In reply to

    • Drew
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    re: Property Transfer Timeline

    Missed your prior post--if Mom conveyed it out prior to 2004 change in rules then it would seem you are well past 3 year deadline?

    I'd only have the early 2000 date in my head....

    But triple confirm----



  • 11-25-2008 1:02 PM In reply to

    • Kris11
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    re: Property Transfer Timeline

    I agree with your feeling about sitting on deeds. That's why we had it registered in our name within days of her actually signing it over at the lawyer's office. Our lawyer took care of all that and we rec'd. a copy of the deed with our names only...not mom's name anywhere.
  • 11-25-2008 2:52 PM In reply to

    • Drew
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    re: Property Transfer Timeline

    It would seem then that your transfer was under prior law of 3 years and its old enough not to be in count back time frame of 5 under new rules whch as I read it apply to post Feb 2004 transfers.



  • 11-25-2008 6:58 PM In reply to

    A 3-year lookback period applies because ...

    the 5-year rule was instituted in February *2006*. Any transfers before February 8, 2006 (to be precise, I think) were subject to the 3-year rule.

    You wouldn't have had to worry about losing the house as such, but she would have been declared ineligible for Medicaid for whatever length of time, and presumably you'd have done whatever you needed to do to make sure she got the required care.

  • 11-26-2008 11:30 AM In reply to

    • Kris11
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    re: A 3-year lookback period applies because ...

    That's exactly my reasoning, too. At one time during this process, we were safe and clear, now they're trying to tell me essentially it doesn't matter
    In trying to be honest here, I'm not trying to cheat the government out of anything, I'm just trying to keep my promise to my mom in not letting her house get sold for her care and also trying to keep my wife and myself from being homeless at the same time When my mom goes on Medicaid, they'll be getting her S.S. check and her State retirement check plus any life insurance policies she has.

    Thanks for all your opinions...I'm gonna try and find the right lawyer to help protect us.
  • 11-26-2008 12:20 PM In reply to

    • Drew
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    re: A 3-year lookback period applies because ...

    Before you spend money on counsel: Just who is telling you are wrong--and what is supposed source of thier information?

    The lookback criteria and the change date for same for transfers are pretty basic lookup matters and they apply in all 50 states.



  • 11-29-2008 12:35 PM In reply to

    • Kris11
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    re: A 3-year lookback period applies because ...

    Sorry took so long to reply.

    The form that I rec'd. from Kansas SRS asks me to list any properties or assets that were disposed of in the previous 5 year period. An elderly lawyer that had handled stuff for my mom in past years said the law was 3 years lookback, but I'm not sure he's been in practice for several years and I wonder if he's aware of the changes in the lookback laws in the last couple years.

    I have an appointment Tuesday morning with a new attorney. I'm hoping he'll tell me what I want to hear. With the housing market in as much turmoil as it is these days, I don't have the funds to look for something else right now.

    Thank you for your help and advice.

    Kris
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