Disability Pension and WC

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Latest post Sat, Oct 20 2007 3:23 PM by Scott Clippinger. 8 replies.
  • Fri, Oct 19 2007 9:59 AM

    • NYMike1
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    Question [=?] Disability Pension and WC

    All this talk of State pensions and WC has me wondering about private disability pensions.
    If I collect a disability pension does WC offset anything from it or is it all mine and they don't actually need to be informed of it at all?
    If I collect the pension, does that mean I just removed myself from the labor market in the IC's opinion?
    The disabilty pension would be because of the WC injury and I would still seek employment or vocational training to keep WC or the IC happy.

  • Fri, Oct 19 2007 1:24 PM In reply to

    • hurtboy
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    • Joined on Sat, May 19 2007
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    Agree [=|=] re: Disability Pension and WC

    I get a small private insurance check every that I paid for with my own money .
    I spoke to my w/c worker and he advised the money is mine and not counted as earned income.


    It is suppose to be for as long as I am disabled from my occupation or life , whichever is less.
  • Fri, Oct 19 2007 4:21 PM In reply to

    re: Disability Pension and WC

    WC does not offset against private disability.

    If you collect a disability pension, that may be proof of an involuntary removal from the labor market as opposed to a voluntary removal. When the retirement is involuntary, that is your WC injury contributed to your reasons for retiring, then you are not obligated to seek employment. If you voluntarily retire--your WC disability had nothing to do with the retirement--then you removed yourself from the labor market voluntarily, not being forced to do so by your disability.

    Voluntary removal will give the carrier a reason to try to terminate payments.
  • Fri, Oct 19 2007 9:07 PM In reply to

    • NYMike1
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    More [=+=] Let me get this straight then...



    It sounds like it would be in my best interest then to try to eventually settle first with WC (if possible) before I apply for a disability pension?
    Then I can go for my pension right after the fact?

    The WC injury will have caused or allowed me to go for the pension. That part is well documented.

    I'm assuming the disability pension will prompt the IC to stop WC benefits once involuntary removal/retirement happens because no job search is required by me, which means there are no wages to replace, and a settlement is then not even possible because of the involuntary removal.
    They can simply just stop paying benefits.

    If that is correct, I think I have mapped my course out.
    I can't wait to get off of WC. I have no desire to be a "lifer".
    I'll look for work how I want to without someone breathing down my back and telling me it has to be done a certain way and documented, and threatening my WC benefits if I don't etc...
  • Fri, Oct 19 2007 10:28 PM In reply to

    re: Let me get this straight then...

    "I'm assuming the disability pension will prompt the IC to stop WC benefits once involuntary removal/retirement happens because no job search is required by me, which means there are no wages to replace, and a settlement is then not even possible because of the involuntary removal.
    They can simply just stop paying benefits."

    Nope. If you are found to have INVOLUNTARILY retired, the payments continue and you are not obligated to look for work. The carrier has grounds to stop payments if you VOLUNTARILY retire, for reasons not associated with your disability.

    That being said, if you wish to terminate your WC, it will give you a certain freedom you don't have while on WC. But . . . if you are found to have an involuntary retirement (the disability pension is related to your WC injury), and you are no longer obligated to look for work, that will stop the carrier from watching you. Once you are no longer obligated to look for work, watching you gives the carrier no benefit.

    This is complicated. It makes good sense to discuss this with your attorney, as the attorney deals with this every day, all day. You have one case . . . the attorney has hundreds, and has usually seen it all. Rely on their expertise and experience.
  • Sat, Oct 20 2007 10:41 AM In reply to

    • NYMike1
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    Feedback [*=*] That was positive

    Wow!
    Except for the continual IC/WC stress potential hanging over a person, it doesn't sound like the IC/WC can do much to a IW when an involuntary withdrawl happens, except keep on paying.
    So why settle when I can still get wage/medical benefits?
    Freedom from being a "kept" person is a good reason. Still though, staying on board and getting continued benefits under my scenario sounds like an option also.
    At least I feel like I have some positive options when this takes place eventually.
    Suddenly the prospect of being a "lifer" with monetary and medical benefits doesn't sound so bad.

    Thank you Scott for shedding some sunshine on this dreary day!
  • Sat, Oct 20 2007 12:27 PM In reply to

    Question [=?] re: how often for alive and well checks?

    How often will the IC check once your involuntarily retired by the w/c injury?


    Will cutting grass in your yard or doing very light garden work will not cause the NYSIF to attempt to end payments after the retirement?

    I can not work but if I take my time and stop and rest as needed I can do 1 or 2 hours of yard work once every few days or so.

    Would that be within a ppd rate?

    I am still at ttd but I believe it should be ppd marked.

    Should I ask my lawyer to call for a hearing?

    I was told my SSD medical based only on my w/c injury was approved by the disability determination service in NY and is waiting
    approval by the Federal Review. So I may have the SSD in a few weeks from now.
    I had thought I already was approved by SSD but I miss-understood the caseworker.... oh well.
  • Sat, Oct 20 2007 12:47 PM In reply to

    • flogging
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    • Posts 16

    re: Let me get this straight then...

    Scott. If I may, I'd like to take this a bit further. A while back I asked about a move to Costa Rica and we're still awaiting a slow house market now to sell and hopefully proceed. My question is a simple one.

    Say you have a pension from your union, marked PPD for years, and then finally enter a part time job after 5 years, thus entering the work force, one you suggest I never left voluntarily due to the disability pension. However, during this time, your artificial lower back gets worst, you need to increase the morphine and valium, and the doctor advises you to stop what you are doing? To take this further, the first part time job suddenly has a state ordered physical agility test, one you of course fail as it is marine corp like, and is recored as such by state tester. You then find another part time job, same field of sitting...realizing now, that all these jobs are far below my AWW forumla and have no effect on the 400 per week, you now find the second job requires far longer continued sitting then expected, and this is WAY too painful a situation, as the doctor agrees this is too long.

    My question is basic.

    Would I need to NOW continue to look for work, despite the disability pension involuntary aspect, or since I have attempted to work and have done so for a few years, am I now in the have to look for work forever situation?

    I ask this because, in Costa Rica, you are by law, not allowed to work, until you are there for two years and are able to become a citizen.

    You suggested I simply get a job there on the last post, and upon further research, I discovered you are not able to work by law. Costa Rica is a place that offers cheap, very cheap...home help, and with my back in it's condition, getting to the floor for any task is a EXTREMELY difficult and painful. This alone makes this a great possible area to settle forever.

    So, to recap this....with the doctors note telling me a no go on what I'm doing, am I now required to look for work despite the union disability pension, and if so....would that effect my move to costa rica in a way that suggests, I can't?
  • Sat, Oct 20 2007 3:23 PM In reply to

    re: Let me get this straight then...

    Not a simple question. There are many factors to be reviewed before a determination can be made as to whether there is a voluntary or involuntary removal from the labor market. If you have a PPD, with a pension, and then begin work, it is difficult to argue that the pension was a "retirement from the labor force", as you continued to work.

    However, if your doctor is now saying you cannot do the job you found, and believes you are disabled from further gainful employment, an argument can be made for an involuntary removal from the labor force. In addition, if the doctor says that you are incapable of doing the job that you were doing, perhaps he will support a total industrial disability--you are not totally disabled by the medical guidelines, but in light of your education, work history, capabilities, and potential for retraining, you are unable to work. In order to be classified with a TID, you will need a report from VESID finding you unable to be retrained.

    The complexity of your situation requires you meet with your lawyer, and discuss your options. Judges and the various districts, are treating this issue differently. You need your lawyers input, and he/she likely has the advantage of knowing how your local folks deal with this issue.

    Good luck . . .
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