Legal rights of a tenant not on lease.

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Latest post 06-28-2009 2:56 AM by Gareth. 3 replies.
  • 01-28-2008 8:41 PM

    Feedback [*=*] Legal rights of a tenant not on lease.

    I've been sharing an apartment with my best friend for the past five months. We lived under a joint lease where we were supposed to share the same responsibilities. But because of her lack of resources I agreed to pay 70% of the bills. The complex we resided in shut down for renovations and we were forced to move into a different apartment nearby. Because of family obligations I was out of town for two weeks. During that time I allowed my roommate to take care of the apartment arrangements which included deciding on a new place and sending me a copy of the lease to sign. The lease never came when I was out of town. After two weeks I returned to town, moved into the apartment and insisted that my roommate allow me to sign the lease. She kept dodging the situation giving excuse after excuse for not having the time to settle things up. I had given her $400 for the majority share of the rent for January and she paid the deposit of $425. I turned on the utilities in my name. About a week into living in the new apartment we had a major fight which ended our friendship and she and her family decided that I would not be allowed to sign the lease. That since the apartment was in her name I would be the one who would have to vacate. I would need to give up access to the apartment in less than a week to satisfy her. I spoke with the landlord who had never even heard of me. According to the landlord, During the signing of the lease she informed him that her name would be the only one on the lease which contradicts what we agreed upon. The landlord also informed me that I had no rights as a tenant. That I had been burned by this person whom I trusted. That it would be in my best interest to try to work it out with her. But so far I haven't been able to do so. My question is, what rights do I have? Does a verbal agreement hold any weight? It's not that I want to live with this person it's just that I'm trying to stand up for my rights. A week simply isn't enough time to find an adequate place to live.
  • 01-29-2008 9:52 AM In reply to

    re: Legal rights of a tenant not on lease.

    Suggestions from a retired LL layman:

    Your analysis needs to change.

    1. Owner is NOT your LL, she is. Correct, you have no rights under his lease with her. Your rights arise out of her oral lease with you!
    2. Her parents are not your LL, she is.
    3. As your LL she is NOT required to offer you a written lease.
    4. There seem to be major elements of consideration--like cash $400 and you signed up for utilities.
    5. At least at time you moved in there seemed to be a meeting of the minds as to your presence and something as to the sums being paid.
    6. My lay view is she is your LL and you have an oral lease for a MtM occupancy.

    7. Your LL needs to follow all appropriate due process in FL to evict you--so far she has failed to get it right. You have NO DUTY to educate her as to how to get it right and I'd clam up. Force her to get it right --untimately she will get it right but it will take her time...Again, do not help her get it right....I think she is out to lunch as to one week.


    8. In my state its very hard to shut off ones own utilities if one is not there but somebody else is---I don't know FL rules , but were I in your shoes I'd have the shut off order in place like today. (A LL may have a duty to a tenant as to utilities not to shut them off--but I doubt there is a reverse duty of tenant to LL even in FL as a shut off being a constructive eviction of one LL.)

    9. Caution, given the nature of male v female I'd watch my backside lest she trump up some assault or threat charge to get police to remove you or some such dirty pool. In theory if she assaults you you could get a protection from abuse order against her which keeps her away from you and your dwelling unit--but its just harder for a guy to make such a case.....

    10 Note that is a major problem to a LL to lock out a tenant---so if eithre her LL or she lockjs you out w/o due process you may have a major tactical edge. I'd not seek a war --but if the other side lashes out--know how to trim them down to size.

    11. Me, time to cut your losses with this EX friend and lover---

     

  • 01-29-2008 12:07 PM In reply to

    re: Legal rights of a tenant not on lease.

    "That since the apartment was in her name I would be the one who would have to vacate."

    Even if it's in her name, the situation makes her your landlord, you're free to force her to take you to court and insist that you had a long-term lease agreement with her mirrored by the lease agreement with her landlord.

    "I would need to give up access to the apartment in less than a week to satisfy her."

    Not if you proceed on the basis that you have a long-term lease that's mirrored what you've described the givens how she'd qualify for the place on her own).

    "I spoke with the landlord who had never even heard of me."

    Ah, nice of you to mention this -- better late than never. So your roommate is your landlord.

    "The landlord also informed me that I had no rights as a tenant."

    The "landlord" is wrong.

    "My question is, what rights do I have?"

    You haven't clearly established what your agreement is with your roomie/landlord.

    "Does a verbal agreement hold any weight?"

    Of course; it's proving it that may be problematic -- that it's more likely than not that you are telling the truth vs. her.

    "A week simply isn't enough time to find an adequate place to live."

    And you're free to ignore her. Even if your agreement were month-to-month with her, she still has not provided proper advance termination notice. I wouldn't educate her as to what that is.

    Start reading up:

    http://www.800helpfla.com/landlord_text.html

    If she locks you out or changes locks, you contact the police and show them evidence of that being your address. I hope you have that. In most circumstances, cops will tell her she has to let you in and that it's a civil/landlord-tenant matter.

    Seek local real estate counsel if necessary.
  • 06-28-2009 2:56 AM In reply to

    • Gareth
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 06-28-2009
    • RI
    • Posts 2

    Re: Legal rights of a tenant not on lease.

    This person is not your "landlord". She is a tenent in said property, and you are a subleaser.

    Even if you do not have a writen lease, the State where you live probably has basic laws pertaining to  housing codes, what is required by a landlord and what is required of the tenent, etc. If you live in a rental property, you have basic housing rights, and as a verbal agreement lease-ee, or even a long term guest, most states consider that your  residence.

     As to the "verbal"? The fact that the utilities are in your name, gives reasonable cause to believe that there was some agreement.

    I believe you can prove you were malisiously tricked by this roommate, and scammed out of being on the lease.

    The party who dishonours a verbal agreement may have acted in a way which could amount to an irrefutable presumption that the agreement had taken place. Small claims/housing court judges do not require "proof beyond a resonable doubt" like criminal court, but your proof, story, evidence, etc would have to be a more believable one than hers.

    So start making notes (keep journal with dates, and time of day) as to every threat, etc, and perhaps make some DISCREET recording of "argeements" or threats.

    Don't forget about a RESTRAINING ORDER.  If you feel that you are been harrassed, go to your town hall or whatever you have where you live, or the cops and ask them where you may obtain a restraining order for someone you live with who has been making your life very uncomfortable.  In some cases, if the restraining order is a 'civil" (as in civil as aposed to criminal court) in your state, there may be a fee of up to $150.00 However if you are at a fiscal point in your life where you are netting below a certin level income, you may be able to ask the clerk about how the fee may be waived. Do not make up stories regarding the details of the harrassment, because liying to the police, etc, can get you in hot water legally.

    Once you have a restraining order (if it's criminal), your tricky little friend will be required to leave the apartment, "to satisfy you". (If R.O. is civil,) you may use it as part of your case to defend yourslf against further threats, etc.

    It is not difficult to search "landlord tenant laws Rhode Island" (or what ever State) online. Usually the State's "tenent's handbook" or some such thing out lining the laws will be downloadable in PDF format, where you can print it out and read it over very carefully.

    believe me, it is a cool feeling to become INFORMED!!

    Even though you are going through an emotional time right now, try to stay clam, and remeber that your safety and health and well being must be your priority in situations like the one you're in now. Take the time to do things right. Always jot down any agreements made right then and there, and have the other person sign it, and than you may sign it as well. This goes for the L.L., your roommate, or anyone. If they are not intending to be deceitful, they should have NO problems, writing their intentions on paper.

    You can keep a note book or journal of any threats, and or agreements, and make sure each entry is dated, and the time of day is noted. Make sure your roomate doesn't have access to this journal. Putting a lock on your door (home depoet), and locking it, and keeping the key on you at all times is a good idea as there is no telling what your roommate might be cable of in terms of deceit.

    Last tip. Scrub duck butts for a living as your night job, but what ever you do, pay your rent. Pay your rent to the actual landlord (money talks). ALWAYS GET RECIEPTS and  NEVER EVER EVER PAY CASH. Use a postal money order if you have to, they only cost a buck, and your piece of mind is worth .99 cents plus a penny. Right?

    P.S. Your "friendship" is over. Take care of yourself.

    Good luck!

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