Medical Neglect of child

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Latest post 02-05-2006 5:03 PM by Firemantx. 9 replies.
  • 02-03-2006 2:24 PM

    Angry [:@] Medical Neglect of child

    Brief summery: (please excuse length)
    My fiancé has an ex-husband. They have a three year old daughter together. They have joint custody of the girl, but the father has primary residence. He recently moved forty miles away from all family. My fiancé also has a six year old son, not from the ex-husband.
    The little girl developed symptoms of asthma two months ago. Per the court orders, he is to have her on insurance, if he can not its the ex-wife’s duty to cover her with full reimbursement from the ex-husband. If reimbursement is not possible the responsible party for medical costs is the ex-husband.
    The Ex-husband took her to the doctor. The doctor diagnosed Asthma and seasonal allergies. The doctor prescribed Albuterol via a portable nebulizer machine and Singular 4mg a day. Please keep in mind that without insurance this cost the ex-husband 600 dollars.
    The little girl got over her symptoms. To our best knowledge no Albuterol has been used to treat flair ups. Two to three weeks ago the Ex-husband ran out of Singular medication to administer to the daughter. He refused three times to return her to the doctor stating, "I was informed that I can decided when to remove the child from the medicine." The Doctor was contacted and he denied ever saying that stating, "That medicine was to control year long allergies and asthma flair ups and she was not to be off the medicine." The ex-husband has also been refusing to hand over the nebulizer and Albuterol at pickups.
    The little girl is now having the same symptoms as when the medicine was started. After the three refusals to take her to the doctor, we scheduled an appointment today with her doctor. I am writing this in advance of the doctor visit.
    I currently work as a Career FF/Paramedic in a great city. I have been in the field for 5 years and a Paramedic for 2 years. I understand Neglect to include failure to provide child with medical care. Asthma is not a condition to take lightly.
    I am trying to double check my logic here. I understand Neglect to be a serious offense. We have pharmacy documentation stating no refills have come through. We have the date the first script was filled. We have the medical file from the doctor stating his requests to have the child on the medicine. The ex-husband is refusing to provide the address where he currently resides. Per the court order he is required to provide proof of residency and the address of the daycare.
    Everyone at my department agrees with me. I also have spoke with the Medical control I work for and they also agree. Does anyone have experience with this? I just want to make sure I am following the right steps to assuring her medical care. Custody is not the issue right now, getting her the proper medical care to ensure a healthy life is.
    Thank you for taking time to read my concerns and offering your help. Have a good day!
  • 02-03-2006 7:12 PM In reply to

    Feedback [*=*] re: Medical Neglect of child

    "I currently work as a Career FF/Paramedic in a great city."

    Are you a mandatory reporter of suspected abuse? If so, your obligation is fairly clear.

    "I understand Neglect to be a serious offense."

    Depends on state law. Quite likely it could be charged as a misdemeanor or a felony. From the facts, without any real injury, I'd guess a misdemeanor.

    "Everyone at my department agrees with me. I also have spoke with the Medical control I work for and they also agree. Does anyone have experience with this?"

    Sure. Unless you are a mandatory reporter of suspected abuse, make your opinion know to your fiance but stay out of it otherwise. Courts want the parents to coparent together, but often do NOT like to see third parties interfering.

    If you are a mandatory reporter, it's clear you consider this to be neglect so you most likely have to report it.
  • 02-03-2006 10:06 PM In reply to

    Feedback [*=*] It Works Both Ways

    Please, please stay out of it. Just from your posting, I can see how you have the potential to inflame the situation.

    If I understand correctly, your fiance is counting on her ex to provide insurance for the child. Regardless of what is on paper, she is the parent also. If the child has needs, she is equally responsible to make sure that the child gets what she needs.

    Having said that, I have experience with the very condition that you describe with the child. My daughter too has asthma and allergies.

    He was correct in being able to assess weather or not she needs to be on the medication. Too much abuteral can make her heart explode. It causes the child to be hiper and have a hard time concentrating. There are many many side effects and you need to allow her own immune system to kick in. My daughter also has singulair, allerex, zyrtec etc. I only give them to her when she is having symptoms. That is too much medication and the long term effects have not been released.

    If you have a concern about him not "handing it over" (the nebulizer) that he paid $600 for, you should go and buy her one. I wouldn't "hand it" it over either. If her mother knows that she needs one, then she needs to make sure she has one. If something happens to it while in her mom's care, the dad will be on the hook for buying another one.


    She can get medicaid for the child and that will pay for a nebulizer for her.

    If your fiance does not see that her daughter has what she needs, she can be accused of neglect as well. It works both ways. The doctor should not be discussing anything with you. You are an outsider.

    If she has a bed at her dads house, is he supposed to "hand it over" home with her everytime she visits, or has her mom made sure that she has one at her house as well.

    Everyone says that they agree with you at work, so what. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Maybe they just want you to stop going on about something that is none of your business.

    They need to coparent and you need to stay out of it. You butting in is going to damage the relationship that the parents need to have to coparent.

    As Judge Judy would tell you. BUTT OUT, IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. You guys are not even married. You have NO say so. You are a third party with no lega rights.

    Someone need to speak up for the children. They are voiceless. Adults are the ones that create the unecessary and volital situations.
  • 02-04-2006 8:09 AM In reply to

    re: It Works Both Ways

    Thanks for the information.

    I am just helping with the research for the case before she takes it to her attorney. She is in full control of what course she takes.

    The only involvement I have is researching Neglect and informing her of what asthma is.

    I don’t want third party rights. In the field I work in I know how serious asthma can be. I only want her to do what is best for the child.

    I have not forced her to do anything. She is preparing to take him back to court for contempt. She asked me information on asthma and medicine. I told her what I know then got reference material for her to back up what I said.

    Is only helping her get her ducks in a row before talking with her attorney is wrong, please let me know. As I just want to help her take the proper steps to assuring a healthy child.
  • 02-04-2006 12:42 PM In reply to

    Disagree [)*(] Wrong in many ways

    "He was correct in being able to assess weather or not she needs to be on the medication."

    No, he wasn't . (Unless he's a pediatric physician) The Dr said she was to stay on the Singulair. Singulair's not a medicine designed for the short term relief of symptoms, that's what the Albutrol is for. Singulair is to prevent her getting the symptoms in the first place.

    Witholding it against a Drs advice could wel be medical neglect - not to mention it's just plain cruel to wait until she has an attack (which can be a terrifying experience for a child) before giving her medicine, when she's been prescribed medicine that can stop the attack from ever happening.

    "If you have a concern about him not "handing it over" (the nebulizer) that he paid $600 for, you should go and buy her one. I wouldn't "hand it" it over either."

    Then you'd also be in the wrong. The custody agreement as described to us makes the ex-husband responsible for the childs medical costs - not just responsible for them while she's with him. Even though he paid for the medecine, it's for the childs benefit, and needs to go with her when she moves from one parent to the other. If the mother has to buy another nebulizer, then the ex will be liable to repay her for it.

    "She can get medicaid for the child and that will pay for a nebulizer for her."

    Very unlikely. Medicaid is for those who can't afford to pay for their own medical costs. The father can afford to pay or the court wouldn't have ordered him to do so.

    "If she has a bed at her dads house, is he supposed to "hand it over" home with her everytime she visits, or has her mom made sure that she has one at her house as well."

    Not the same thing at all. The court has made the father liable for the cost of the childs medical care. Even when she's staying with her mother, he's still liable for the costs.

    Richard
  • 02-04-2006 1:10 PM In reply to

    re: Wrong in many ways

    Thank you for your reply.

    No he is not a doctor. He was once an EMT in the navy, but not a doctor. So I agree that its not in the little girls best interest.

    UPDATE:
    Mom has just reported it to CPS and kept me out of it. They need his address to do a full investigation

    Once again thank you for confirming my beliefs.

  • 02-04-2006 9:59 PM In reply to

    Feedback [*=*] re: Wrong in many ways

    She was not on medication that would stop an attack. Singular is an alergy medication. It keeps the symptoms of allergies under control. Not asthma. I am very aware of what it is for.

    Depending on her allergies, they may only be seasonal. You may be big on medications, that is your business and as you see in the follow-up post, it was not a doctor that stated that she needed to be on them. You do not over medicate children. You will compromise their immune system.

    My kids had scarlet fever. I new it because I had just finished my nursing microbiology class and we followed the streptococcus bacteria all the way up to and including rhumatic fever.

    I also told the triage nurse that my kids needed to be quarantined when I walked into the ER. I TOLD the that they had scarlett fever. The DOCTOR told me that it had been wipped out for decades and that he doubted very seriously that they had scarlet fever.

    Four hours after I returned home from taking my boys to the hospital, and had already called their doctor to tell him that my kids needed some penicillin, the doctor called me and told me that my boys had scarlet fever. I thanked him and told him that I had called their pediatrician and was on my way to pick up their medication.

    So you see, a PARENT knows more about their child than anybody else. The doctor only knows what the parents tell him. If he finds something else during his examination that needs to be treated then all the better.

    If the mother is aware that the child has a medical condition that requires a nebulizer, which also comes in a hand held inhaler, syrup form and a portable nebulizer that is not $600.00, then I stand by what I said, she needs to do what she has to do so that she is NOT left standing there with just her court order in her hand. Those details can be worked out in court.

    It is cruel NOT to take the precautions just in case it does happen. What is she going to tell the doctor, I don't have a nebulizer, but I have a court order. If the dad has to pay for it, OH WELL, she still needs to get one.

    A parent knows their child BETTER than anyone. If he does not think that she needs to take medication because he has been monitoring the situation then that is his call. If the child is taking medication and she begins to have an adverse reaction, it is the parent that is there to notice it and STOP the medication immediately.

    Thank god that my daughter's doctor knows that when I tell her that I need something, she see's to it that I get it.

    I don't know how medicaid works in your state, but in North Carolina, "No Child Gets Left Behind". It is NOT just for the poor. If you apply ESPECIALLY if your child has a chronic illness, you will get help. If your income is too high, over $35,000 in some cases, you may have a co-pay, otherwise, the kids will be covered. Period.



  • 02-05-2006 4:12 PM In reply to

    Disagree [)*(] Wrong again

    theirmom:
    "She was not on medication that would stop an attack. Singular is an alergy medication. It keeps the symptoms of allergies under control. Not asthma. I am very aware of what it is for."

    Apparently, no you aren't. Singulair is FDA approved for the long-term chronic control of Asthma. It is a Leukotriene blocker that prevents asthma attacks from happening in the first place.

    http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/5c906.htm

    "My daughter also has singulair, allerex, zyrtec etc. I only give them to her when she is having symptoms."

    Then you are misusing the Singulair.

    The maker *specifically* says "Do not take Singulair to relieve an asthma attack. It is not a replacement for the quick help that short acting inhalers provide during an asthma attack."

    Singulair is a long term daily use medication to PREVENT symptoms. It should NOT be taken to relieve symptoms when they occur.

    "as you see in the follow-up post, it was not a doctor that stated that she needed to be on them."

    Yes, it WAS a Dr that said that she needed to be on the medications. The ex-husband - a former Navy EMT - took the child to a Dr and is now witholding the medication aganst medical advice.

    "then I stand by what I said, she needs to do what she has to do so that she is NOT left standing there with just her court order in her hand."

    While I agree that she should buy one anyway (And they're not $600 - that was what the poster said the total cost of the original prescriptions and the nebulizer added up to - a nebulizer is available for as little as $80), that wasn't the point.

    You said in your post that "I wouldn't "hand it" it over either." and I pointed out that you would be wrong not to do so, and in violation of the court order.

    "Those details can be worked out in court."

    They HAVE been worked out in court. If the ex-husband refuses to pay for the medications that she has been prescribed, he is in breach of the court order.

    It may be that the parents TOGETHER, since they have joint custody, might make an informed decision to not follow a course of treatment recomended by the doctor, but the father has NO right to unilaterally withold the treatment over the mothers objections for financial reasons. He has been court ordered to pay her medical costs, and he needs to do so.

    "I TOLD the that they had scarlett fever. The DOCTOR told me that it had been wipped out for decades and that he doubted very seriously that they had scarlet fever."

    This has nothing whatsover to do with the posters situation, and I doubt it very much indeed anyway. Scarlet Fever is a not uncommon childhood disease, and I cannot imagine an ER Dr thinking it's been wiped out.

    Richard
  • 02-05-2006 4:35 PM In reply to

    • msjen
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 02-05-2006
    • Posts 2

    re: Wrong in many ways

    I hope you are still in nursing school. Have a lot to learn yet! When I was in nursing school years ago we were warned about the "I (or my family) have that illness" syndrome. Also, the "I know it all" syndrome.

    From this website:
    http://www.singulair.com/montelukast_sodium/singulair/consumer/adult_asthma/about_asthma/index.jsp

    {SINGULAIR® (montelukast sodium) is a prescription medicine approved to help control asthma in adults and children as young as 12 months and to help relieve the symptoms of indoor and outdoor allergies (outdoor allergies in adults and children as young as 2 years, and indoor allergies in adults and children as young as 6 months).

    IMPORTANT INFORMATION
    SINGULAIR should be taken once a day, as prescribed. SINGULAIR is available by prescription only."}

    Check it out for yourself!

    We are admitting quite a few less patients with acute asthma attacks at our hospital. The number one reason: they take their Singulair every day.

    It's good BF was helping this child's mother with researching this issue. Sounds like BF is a mandatory reporter. Once the doctor had been informed that dad stated he had taken child off medication, it was MD's responsibility to follow up with dad and also file a report with CPS. MDis definitely required to report this if in his expert opinion this child needs the medication every day and Dad refuses to provide it.

    As the mother, I would have seen to it I had all the medications, etc. my child needed at my house. Even if had to work another job and pay for all myself until court ordered Dad to cover the costs.

    I sincerely hope CPS looks very closely at this Dad. Maybe it's time Mom has sole custody of the child.

















  • 02-05-2006 5:03 PM In reply to

    More [=+=] re: Wrong in many ways

    Thank you Rick for your response. And thank you msjen for your response.

    I'm am the fiance and the mother of the child. My daughter was diagnosed by the doctor for Asthma in November of last year. I don't believe in children being over medicated, my son and I have very developed immune systems as I believe in eating right and not medicating every little sniffle. But from my research asthma is a very serious condition and is not something that can be controlled by just eating right. I believe, as a mother and knowing my child best, she does need the medication. The Singular is both for asthma and for seasonal allergies. Allergies going untreated and allowed to get worse is what can set off triggers for asthma. The mucus buildup in my childs lungs causes wheezing and her basically straining for breathe. My ex-husband took her off the medication as he did not want to pay for her medicine. It has further been found that he could have refilled her prescription at anytime and refused. The doctor had also wanted a follow-up to check on her and he would not schedule it. When I scheduled the visit he tryed to immediately get the refill filled and was denied by the Doctor as he wanted to see her first. I acted immediately on all of this information and did what was in the best interest of my child. He is required to provide me with the Nebulizer as he is not carring Insurance on my child and he is responsible for all medical costs. If he did not provide the Nebulizer I would go out immediately and buy another, which is something I'm looking into doing as of now. I did not believe a parent could stoop to this low. I do not make him provide clothes, food, or a bed for my daughter at my residence. She gets a higher quality of life at my house. I do pay the cost for full child support for her and pay for all costs associated with my son with no support. I would never deny my child health care at the expense of being right and holding a court document in my hand. He will get his day in court. And I was also made aware that this is a neglect in our state and I was required by law to report the incident to CPS. And as for health insurance I make too much money to qualify for the "No Child Left Behind" and not enough money for private insurance. The "No Child Left Behind", Food Stamps and any other assistance provided by the government is ridiculous. Single parents are definitely left out in all of these programs. We make just enough to pay the bills and survive and too much to qualify for all of these programs.

    But I do appreciate all of the comments on this message board as being educated fully on the topic helps anyone make the most informed decision.
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