implied lease

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Latest post 02-03-2009 9:12 AM by Drew. 4 replies.
  • 02-02-2009 12:05 PM

    implied lease

    I'm still agonizing over my parent's house without title to land. Is there such a thing as an implied lease? Everyone tells me there must be a lease, because all coal land houses were sold with 99 year leases. Which would be wonderful, but nothing has been recorded in the courthouse.
  • 02-02-2009 2:37 PM In reply to

    re: implied lease

    Do us a favor and always refer back to your earlier posts either by board and number or by link for the sake of continuity and context:

    http://community.lawyers.com/messageboards/message.asp?channelId=0&subId=0&mId=1122982&mbId=31&threadId=10643&threadstart=0&threadend=0

    Answers to your current question would be of no help to the situation you describe in your other post.

    For example:

    Yes, there is such a thing as an implied lease or oral lease. Whether or not one exists or is enforceable depends on a variety of factors not the least of which are possible statutes that might say a certain type of leas has to be in writing to be enforceable.

    Leases typically are not required to be recorded to be enforceable. They can be, but most aren't.

    With regard to coal land houses sold with 99 year leases, the obvious question was who were the parties to the original lease and what were the terms and conditions?

    Leases for mineral rights generally run with the land and you've established that your folks don't appear to own the land, so the existence of a prior lease might not help them. It's even questionable if they own the house. Taking a "receipt" to be recorded is not the same as recording a deed so there is no way of knowing if that "receipt" does them any good.

    I think it's time that your folks resign themselves to hiring a real estate attorney who can properly guide them through an action for adverse possession or quiet title.

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  • 02-02-2009 7:04 PM In reply to

    • Drew
      Consumer
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 03-30-2000
    • PA
    • Posts 48,979

    re: implied lease

    Actually a lease could be fatal to a position of adverse possession as lease supports use by permission--which can be terminated--be careful not to prove wrong thing! And remember you must get past 21 year deadline for adverse possession to work, and w/o a long debater about tacking , I'd say you need 21 safe years PAST time you were made aware you were there w/o permission of new supposed buyer by buyer's attorney.

    If the other buyer snoozes past 21 year mark and Dad use is open, continuous, w/o permission I think he loses 99% of his leverage---again my comment--leave sleeping dogs lie.

    Actually mineral rights in PA are a special topic that sometimes have little to do with surface uses



  • 02-03-2009 6:19 AM In reply to

    re: implied lease

    Just curious and I know you have probably looked but generally when there is a tax sale, there is a treasury deed issued that trumps a trust deep.

    In your other post you mentioned a receipt. Is it possible you Dad did not follow through with the process to get a deed? He would have had to apply for the deed based on the taxes not being satisfied (in my own very limited opinion about tax sales). Since only a receipt was issued, this might be proof he bought the tax lien but he now should file for a trearures deed (depending on state of coarse).
  • 02-03-2009 9:12 AM In reply to

    • Drew
      Consumer
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 03-30-2000
    • PA
    • Posts 48,979

    re: implied lease

    Well a bit of homework by a skilled title searcher in the county courthouse would be most helpful as to the likely starting points. (Outsiders, not county workers) In my county there are say 3-4 folks who seem to be very good at details--and some work as free agents or whatever --and perhaps 20 more who are good+. Now if I ask an attorney to search XXX he will farm it out anyway but if I want my name secret I'll pay for the added level but if
    "secrecy" is not an issue I may pay a searcher direct. (Probably a 2-3X difference on cost.)

    PA has some rather convoluted separation of surface v mineral rights.

    And we have both Tax Upset Sales and Tax Judical Sales --lots of quirks.

    And in some mining or logging areas --adverse possession is common.

    The problem is that in many areas there are very skilled bottom feeders/speculations--who may buy say 200 properties at Judical sales--190 of which are worthless--but the 10 can be milked quite well.

    You post makes it clear you do NOT know what you have--ergo you need to know the likley answer.

    My concern is that if you have a weak position on title but a strong possible position as to adverse possession nearing a deadline in your favor you do not want to wake anyone up until the deadline passes.

    Some county tax records and title records are on line or readily available without any fuss. I could walk into my (busy) county recorders office and nobody would know a thing--but I went with a friend to a small county courthouse --and this friend is but a retired clerk in a small bank but he knows "everybody"--so guess what--"everyone" knew he was looking at deeds and wills--in this case no problem---but you decide for you situation.



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