dying intestate in oregon

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Latest post 02-23-2009 9:15 AM by Drew. 8 replies.
  • 02-19-2009 7:30 PM

    • charline1
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    Sad [:(] dying intestate in oregon

    My father died last August without a will. He did not own any vehicles but did have a home as well as a large coin collection. How do I proceed in procuring what's legally mine. I have three young brothers, one of whom is disabled and living in an assisted living facility. My other brother has announced that our late father sold him the family home shortly before his death, he gravitates from having had it sold out right to him to having purchased 50% of the family home. I strongly feel our father did the later. How would this affect my father's estate? I understand probate is not involved due to the new laws in Oregon. I live several hundred miles from the family home (in Oregon). Dad's home, which is now prime realestate asthe property is business zoned, on a main street - next to Safeway, Staples etc. Our father purchased the home in 1955. My brother refuses to discuss anything dealing with our late father except to acknowledge that Dad did not leave a will. Through our divorced mother I did learn Dad had several bank accounts which have been emptied since Dad's death by my brother - how does one go about assuring ones rights in such a situation - Dad's coin collection was substantial and is in a large safe in the family home. What rights does my disabled brother have?
  • 02-20-2009 8:22 AM In reply to

    Feedback [*=*] re: dying intestate in oregon

    I think that your statement that the estate is not eligible for probate is mistaken.

    If there is no will then someone needs to file died without a will paperwork with the local probate court and see to be appointed administrator of your father's estate. The administrator then can ask (or demand) that the brother to account for his actions and for any property that he took. Please note that if the brother was listed as the Payable on Death beneficiary of those bank accounts, then the money passed outside probate and probably is his.

    If brother has a property interest in the home, it should be recorded at the local court house on the deed. Someone should check the title. If it is not practical for you to go there and look up yourself, then pay a title company to do it for you.

    If no one is willing to do anything about brother's actions, then it becomes "you snooze, you lose" situation.
  • 02-20-2009 9:00 AM In reply to

    • Drew
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    Warning [=*#] re: dying intestate in oregon

    Essentially agree :

    You snooze you lose !

    1. Check the actual recorded titles, copy, see what they appear to say. Do so darn quickly.

    2. Under intestacy, whatever is in Dads estate after bills and taxes, assuming no spouse, is split EQUALLY among his kids. No special rights for being disabled.

    3. So who is living rent free in the home now?

    4. If the contents of a safe go missing how do you expect to reconstruct that one. Did Dad keep good inventory lists--and do you have control of same?

    5. If brother emptied Dads accounts--sure suggests foul play! Now to empty joint accounts with Dad is perhaps completely legal. So how were accounts titled?

    5.1 Cute step: --I buy Dads home from him--actually pay him some $$ --I suggest Dad put it in joint account for his convenience. Dad follows my suggestion, Dad passes, I get my money back.

    5.2 Even smarter cute step: I get Dad to add my name to title JWROS , he lives there until he dies--I get it all by title and stepped up basis to boot.

    6. Were I in your shoes I'd seek administration via intestacy--ASAP and I'd marshal brothers to try to prevent a particular brother from serving. CAUTION --is some states the rules for priority of who gets to serve sort of favor the first to file--so it may be important to be first in line--which means get in line fast and don't tell others until much later..... Probably must wiser if you use OR estate counsel to assist. Time may be critical--this is not time for home brew stuff.



  • 02-20-2009 2:02 PM In reply to

    • charline1
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    Feedback [*=*] re: dying intestate in oregon

    Thank you all for the information. Perhaps there are few things in life as heartbreaking as situations in which you juggle the pain of losing a loved one plus learning those whom should be there as support are in reality thieves. Strong words, but they keep coming to mind. I spent the best years of my life caring for my aged father, I failed to marry at a time in which I could have produced my own family, instead I foolishly stayed by Dad's side keeping him company after my parent's divorce. By the time I snapped out of it and grabbed at what had to be my last opportunity for happiness with a lost love, Dad had obviously made up his mind that I was his property. He was against my leaving, against my marriage and dispised any man who attemted to come between us. His actions clearly made it known how he felt about my leaving his side. My younger brother - younger by only 13 months - took advantage of my leaving moving his family into Dad's home three years ago prompting him to manuever things so that everything went to him with or without a will. Am I bitter, yes, am I hurt, indeed! But I have a good solid marriage and a life which I know in my heart would have been beyond empty and meaningless if I had not snapped out of Dad's controlling spell and found my own way. My brother can have the family home, he can also have the memories and the heartache that went with it. I wish him well, as he walks into our old bedrooms and sits there at the kitchen table it will be him and not me who reflects upon what it took to be there. I can sleep at night knowing I would never have allowed such a huge rift to form between us, even though some might insist that I had earned the right to live there. My brothers left almost forty-years ago.
  • 02-20-2009 2:26 PM In reply to

    • charline1
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    Question [=?] re: dying intestate in oregon

    I am concerned, though about my disbaled brother. If anything were given to him would it not affect his disability check he receives from the state? Its not the loss of money that i worry about, I can assist him there - but the loss of his medical coverage. If I went after a fair property division would this not become legally known to the state? I have a hunch our late father was not aware of this. Dad's home is worth close to $400,000 as it is on prime business zoned land - he fought investors for years to remain where he had lived most of our childhood.
  • 02-20-2009 10:09 PM In reply to

    • Drew
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    re: dying intestate in oregon

    You have got the cart way ahead of the horse---until and unless somebody like you is able to force a distribution of dads estate , if there even is an estate left to divide, there is absolutely no issue of brother having too much to qualify for anything! Until he actually gets assets its not an issue--and there are many bridges to cross before you get there--and perhaps a number of ways to sidetrack his potential problem IF a distribution is a certainty.

    The odds are you simply don't know if Dad and your younger bother restructured things so as to cut brother in for about everything and everyone else out by title designations etc. Dad is fully legally entitled to make lopsided unfair distributions --issue may be did brother help himself improperly?

    Simple task may provide clues--sort out and copy the most recent two deeds for home!

    Repost what you find.



  • 02-22-2009 2:53 PM In reply to

    • charline1
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    Question [=?] re: dying intestate in oregon

    I have knowledge that the homes title is now in both my late father's name as well as my brother's - placed there in 2005. Obviously our father did not trust my brother as he kept control of the home. Our father got his wishes and died in the family home rather than in a care home. This I support. As for the coin collection, our father had a large collection which he worked on most of my life - it was substantial with many proof sets as well as coins in mint condition - our family had roots in Reno Nevada. Unfortunately nothing has been said about its existance. My brother is now avoiding all contact with me which he has done since the day of the funeral. According to him there was no will and so far nothing has proven otherwise. The only designation of any value appears to be our brother's name on the deed to the home. I have absolutely no idea of how to research this further - did our father die oweing money, who received the portion of the sale of the home - our dad or brother? I know Father well enough to know he did not allow it to go for a mere $1. There are four surving children with myself being the oldest. Our mother also has a court order(divorce)giving her the value of the home as it was worth in 1968 (50%) which she never collected on as Dad received full custody of all four of us. I was 16 when they parted. Does she have any rights? According to Mom her name was NEVER on the deed even though she worked and contributed to its purchase and later up keep. Seems like a lot of deceit is involved here. I just want what is mine according to the law of fair equity - but don't know how to proceed.
  • 02-22-2009 7:51 PM In reply to

    re: dying intestate in oregon

    Looks like to me you need to open probate and get this going. Get thee to an estate lawyer and ask the court to appoint you as your father's executor.
  • 02-23-2009 9:15 AM In reply to

    • Drew
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    Sad [:(] re: dying intestate in oregon

    My guess is you haven't yet bothered to look up how the home is/was actually titled cira 2005 --is it JWROS or TIC?

    What Dad actually did cira 2005 may have a major bearing on your options in 2009!

    If Mom has a court order awarding her some interest in said home she needs to sort out what it says in contect of your state law! Precise words may be critical as to if she has a debt that dad owes her or if she has a secured position with home.

    It is possible that Dads 2005 title change was designed also to cut Moms claim out of the loop.

    If Dad owes Mom something under the divorce order it may be critical for her to press a calim for same agains the estate on a timely basis---and for a friendly person like you to seek to raise dads estate under intestacy...


    Your odds of recovering the coins from a common household maintained by Dad and son are about the same as recovering any other completed gift by Dad to loving son---how do you prove otherwise?
    (OK there are some technical arguments about gifts still in possession of donor--but I'll bet you haven't seen the coin collection in many a month so how do disprove that dad gave it to him last year? )



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