RV Loan, never probated..

Previous | Next
 rated by 0 users
Latest post 03-25-2009 6:28 PM by NinjaJ. 6 replies.
  • 03-25-2009 1:07 AM

    • NinjaJ
      Consumer
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 03-25-2009
    • TX
    • Posts 4

    RV Loan, never probated..

    My uncle passed away in 2007. His will was probated. However, the lawyer was a family friend, and didn't do all that great of job.

    I can get more information later, but I'm just trying to get a general idea of what should be done here.

    He had a loan on a 5th wheel. It was/is solely in his name, no one elses. Not his wife's or anyone elses. It was not connected to the company he owned, which is now his wife's. It apparently was never put into probate for the loan/debt to be paid off. Probate has been done with for a long while. The only other property my uncle owned soley in his name, was a truck, which later was found the payment protection papers. Those have been signed by the wife and sent off. Truck is cleared now. They were just making payments on it.

    Well, they've just been making payments on the 5th wheel too. They have been trying to sell it, but it's not worth what is owed (roughly $23,000). From what I've been reading, it should've been taken care of in the probate. But obviously wasn't. Can they turn it back over to the loan people with no recourse, since it wasn't left to anyone? I know from what I've read on it, the estate should've paid for it. But it obviously didn't. So now what can they do? Can they just stop making payments on it, and let them take it back(the loan people)? Or is my aunt somehow responsible for it, even though, it was only solely in my uncle's name? They want to just get rid of it. It won't sell, because the company that made it is now no longer exsisting, and it's not worth what is still owed. They have been paying on it since my uncle died in 2007, just because they thought they were supposed to.

    I hope I wasn't too confusing. Any input, ideas or suggestions would be great. Thank you. If you need more information just let me know and I can get it.

  • 03-25-2009 1:38 AM In reply to

    Re: RV Loan, never probated..

    It's part of the estate and has to be addressed even if probate has to be re-opened.

    The estate can certainly let it go back to the lender but the lender will come after the estate for any deficiency and the heirs could find themselves giving up assets to pay the deficiency.

    The lawyer who didn't do such a good job could be vulnerable to a malpractice lawsuit.

    I suggest you consult a lawyer who can straighten this out properly.

     

     

    • The right of the people 
    • to keep and bear arms,
    • shall not be infringed.
  • 03-25-2009 1:59 AM In reply to

    • NinjaJ
      Consumer
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 03-25-2009
    • TX
    • Posts 4

    Re: RV Loan, never probated..

    Well, I know they will never file a malpractice suit on the lawyer. He was my uncle's best friend since childhood. Friends for about 50 years.

    Just a little irritating that he did a really poor job on things. Did help that my aunt was very poorly involved. My dad is the one that runs the company now, and handles everything. He's also the one that found the protection papers on the truck, that no one seemed to know about. He's been looking and my uncle didn't seem to do the samething with the RV. So I was trying to help him find a legal way to get out of paying off the loan, that still is solely in my uncle's name(his brother).

    So in short, I need to tell him to hire a new lawyer, re-open probate to get this settled. Otehrwise he'll need to keep paying off the loan, or the lenders can go after my aunt? Because I'm not exactly sure what was considered my uncle's estate.

  • 03-25-2009 3:37 PM In reply to

    • Kivi
      Consumer
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-01-2005
    • CA
    • Posts 5,911

    Re: RV Loan, never probated..

    Hard to know without further details about what else was in the estate.

    When I was the personal administrator of my late father's estate, I did send creditor claim forms to all known creditors.  Certainly the existence of this loan was known at the time and probably something similar should have occurred.  The creditors then have a certain time limit in which to file the claim against the estate.

    So, my first suggestion would be to determine if the lien holder was notified of the death and given an opportunity to file a creditor claim when probate was still open.  Whoever was the executor or personal representative of the estate needs to review the paperwork.

    If the creditor missed the deadline for filing a creditor claim, it may still have the right to recover the fifth wheel. It might, however, be precluded from getting a deficiency judgment against the estate.  Of course, if the estate is sued, the executor or personal rep will have to raise that defense.

    Of course, if the creditor did not get the required notice, the waters get more muddy.  In some states, the required notices in the local newspapers might suffice. 

    These are the issues to discuss with counsel. 

    The other issue is what else was in the estate.  If there were distributions to heirs and the creditor does get a judgment against the estate, heirs could be required to return distributions they received to satisfy that judgment.  Not a scenario that makes for "happy campers".  

    On the other hand, if there were no other assets in the estate, the creditor probably "eats it".

     

  • 03-25-2009 4:07 PM In reply to

    • NinjaJ
      Consumer
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 03-25-2009
    • TX
    • Posts 4

    Re: RV Loan, never probated..

    Yes, it gets "muddy." After talking more with my dad about it. Actually it doesn't really fall on the lawyer's lap, but my aunt. Who was the executor. She didn't do anything she was supposed to do. She wanted everyone else to do it, but also never told anyone what to get/do. My dad hasn't seen the papers, so doesn't know yet what was in the probate. We're thinking the only thing they probated was the company that my uncle owned, which was incorporated. 

    I'm also positive no one was contacted such as credit card companies, or the lenders for the vehicles or RV when my uncle passed. Because all the credit cards for things like the business were/are still in my uncle's name.

    Also during probate, which seemed only to invovle the company no one could do anything. The only reason the company was still running while in probate was because one of my cousins has the same name as my uncle, and he was the only person allowed to sign checks for hte employees. When my uncle passed, he left everything to my aunt and had his shares of his company transfered to her. Only one other person owns just a little tiny bit of shares to the company. Aunt the was the sole heir of everything

    So techincally, unless she was somewhere on the paper work(we have to find that out) his only "estate" was the RV, truck(that had a lender, but later the protection papers were signed, and sent off, so the truck is paid for, but the title is still, of course in my uncle's name), and some other trucks(that have no lenders attached to them) that he used for the company, and the company, if my aunt was invovled in that somehow. And like mentioned before, we know for a fact none of the trucks or RV was ever put into probate. When they should've been. And know for a fact that no one was every really contacted when my uncle passed away.

    All this being messed up because my aunt couldn't do what she was supposed to, because she couldn't be bothered with that stuff.

  • 03-25-2009 6:09 PM In reply to

    • Kivi
      Consumer
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-01-2005
    • CA
    • Posts 5,911

    Re: RV Loan, never probated..

    If aunt was the executor, this one could come back to bite her in the rear end.  That may explain why she has continued to make the payments, if that is the case.

    If the executor did not perform his/her duties properly, in many states, the creditors could go after the executor personally. &nbsp... generally happens is the executor tries to "round up" the monetary distributions that should not have been given out.  But, if he or she is unsuccessful and the estate has a judgment against it, the executor might be held personally liable to pay it.  The creditors also would have to establish negligence or civil fraud against the executor.  Often, the costs of establishing this cannot be justified for smaller debts.  In theory, however, it is possible.

    If aunt was not up to the task of being the executor/executress, she really should have relinquished the role to someone who was.   

    If the executor was bonded, it is possible the bonding company could be liable.  But, buying a bond for the executor can be expensive for the estate.  You don't see it all that often.

  • 03-25-2009 6:28 PM In reply to

    • NinjaJ
      Consumer
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 03-25-2009
    • TX
    • Posts 4

    Re: RV Loan, never probated..

    I completely agree, that she should've relinquished her duties.

    And no, she doesn't pay the bills. My father has been paying the bills. When my uncle was alive, he too was the one that handled everything. Money, income, bills, etc. It dawned on me the company wouldn't matter, as it was Inc. So it is a separate legal entity. So anything tied to the business, would not be considered part of my uncle's estate. The only thing that seems to be my uncle's estate is the truck(that is now paid off), and the RV,and possibly some other trucks he uses/used for the business. Not sure yet if those are attached to the business, or his personally.

    Even when the paper work was found for the truck, to be paid off by the lender in the event of death, she kept putting off signing the papers, because she had other things to do. Heck I don't know. I know my cousin ended up writing her signature, just so it could be done. So my dad could stop making payments on something that didn't need payments. See my uncle bought the truck in his name, but "leased" it to the company. So it was/is used as a work truck. But wasn't owned by the company. Kind of the samething with the 5th wheel. It was in California at the time. But all she would've had to do was ask for the papers to be mailed to her, so she could give them to the lawyer. Apparently that was too much to ask of her. 

    My dad is going to try to get ahold of the probate papers to see what exactly was listed as my uncle's estate. He had little to no debt as far as other things went, and most of those things like the house are jointly owed with my aunt, so that wasn't of course, included in the probate, because she was the sole surivor of that stuff.

    So what we're thinking is that if my Dad informed the lenders that they can take back the 5th wheel, inform them of my uncle's 2007 death, and let it go at that, letting them know where it is located so they can get it. If they wanted to, the only thing they could really go after for money that was considered my uncle's estate besides the 5th wheel is the now paid off truck. But even the truck wouldn't put a dent into what is still owed on the RV to the lenders. ANd they'd spend more in court costs,etc. So in the end, would really just cost the lenders more money, than if they just took back the 5th wheel, and took it as a loss. Granted the lawyer should've done all this in the first place, but he can only work with what is given to him. Heck, probate didn't even get started until about 6 months after my uncle's death because my aunt wouldn't sign stuff she needed to sign to get things started, because she was more concerned with other things or something.

    *sigh* I don't know. Aunt irritates me.

Page 1 of 1 (7 items) | RSS

My Community

Community Membership New Users: Search Community