Repossession Questions

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Latest post Tue, Sep 22 2009 1:31 PM by mudpie. 13 replies.
  • Sun, Sep 20 2009 4:18 PM

    • mainteddi
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    Repossession Questions

    Can a bank repo your vehicle without any notice of intent to repossess?  We bought a vehicle paid over half of the price of the auto down on the vehicle.  We have made our payments.  Recently do to unforeseen circumstances we were not able to make our payment.  We notified the bank of this and they said ok we will put that down in your payment history as a note to when you will be able to make a payment.  Now today without any notice at all a man knocked at my door and said he was here to take our truck.  He already had entered my truck had it running and ready to go.  He let me take my belongings out of the truck and told me to contact the bank.  Can they do this?  I thought the bank had to send you some kind of notice of intent to repossess if they were planning on repossession. 

  • Sun, Sep 20 2009 4:39 PM In reply to

    Re: Repossession Questions

    "Can they do this?"  Yes.  How late is the payment? 

    In Wisconsin resposession is allowed under the following circumstances: Repossessions allowed in the State of Wisconsin with Replevin Judgements, Voluntary Surrenders, or under Wisconsin Act 255, which outlines specific cure requirements.

    As far as I can tell you have 15 days to redeem the truck before they can sell it at auction for the balance of the loan but you have to act quickly.  If they didn't get a Replevin Judgement before reposessing the truck this may be an illegal repossession.  You need to contact the bank FIRST thing in the morning.  Did the repo company leave you ANY paperwork?

    "I thought the bank had to send you some kind of notice of intent to repossess if they were planning on repossession."

    Nope.  Then you would hide the vehicle.  Watch a show on A&E network called Operation Repo.  One of those "reality" shows where they follow a repo crew around.  Some of the vehicles they are snagging they have been contracted to repo for months and the customer hasn't made payments for 6 months up to a year.  They have been hiding the car and it is a cat and mouse game to get it back for the finance company. They once repoed a Lamborghini from a garage that someone was hiding for the owner that was parked sideways and hidden behind a pingpong table and boxes and had been searching for for six months.  Not everyone is stand up and calls the bank when they can't make the payment.

    "That's just my opinion, then again I might be wrong."  Dennis Miller

     

  • Sun, Sep 20 2009 4:41 PM In reply to

    • mainteddi
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    Re: Repossession Questions

    They repo person left no paperwork with me at all.  The payment is 35 days past due.   How do I know if they got a Replevin Judgement before repossession?

  • Sun, Sep 20 2009 4:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Repossession Questions

    mainteddi:
    Can a bank repo your vehicle without any notice of intent to repossess?

    Yes.

    Not making the payment puts you in default which allows repossession without notice.

    It's all addressed in your loan contract.

    mainteddi:
    We notified the bank of this and they said ok we will put that down in your payment history as a note to when you will be able to make a payment.

    And that's all they did, if they even did that, which is doubtful, because they have no obligation to do it.

    Making a "note" in your file does not change your obligation to pay and doesn't change the bank's right to repo.

    mainteddi:
    Now today without any notice at all a man knocked at my door and said he was here to take our truck. He already had entered my truck had it running and ready to go. He let me take my belongings out of the truck and told me to contact the bank. Can they do this?

    Yes.

    mainteddi:
    I thought the bank had to send you some kind of notice of intent to repossess if they were planning on repossession.

    No.

    Once the vehicle is repossessed there may be some notification requirements about what will happen to it.

    The WI statutes on repo are in Chapter 425 which you can look up at:

    http://nxt.legis.state...

     

    • The right of the people 
    • to keep and bear arms,
    • shall not be infringed.
  • Sun, Sep 20 2009 4:46 PM In reply to

    Re: Repossession Questions

    They didn't do a Replevin Judgement they used Act 255.  It allows them to avoid court.  Wisconsin has VERY strict rules on reposession.  By using a professional repo company they complied with Act 255 in notifying you of the repo  READ below it explains it very easily and you have 15 days to redeem the vehicle act quickly:

    Recording Requirements:

    Per the Uniform Commercial Code adopted July, 1965: Filed with Registrar of Deeds in county where owner resides and with the Department of Motor Vehicles.

    Recovery Requirements:

    Act 255 establishes a new method by which a merchant may take possession of motor vehicle collateral or goods subject to a motor vehicle consumer lease without undertaking judicial proceedings, often referred to as self-help repossession. To do so, a merchant must mail (either by certified or registered mail) to the customer a notice that, among other things, includes the following information:


    1. A statement that, as a result of the customer’s default on the consumer credit transaction, the merchant may have the right to take possession of the collateral or goods without further notice or court proceeding.


    2. A statement that if the customer is not in default or objects to the merchant’s right to take possession of the collateral or goods, the customer may, no later than 15 days after the merchant has given the notice, demand that the merchant proceed in court by notifying the merchant in writing.


    3. A statement that if the merchant proceeds in court, the customer may be required to pay court costs and attorney fees.

     

    4. The creditor's name, address, and telephone number, along with a brief identification of the credit transaction, such as a loan account number, and brief description of the collateral.


    The Act also provides that a merchant who repossesses motor vehicle collateral or goods under a motor vehicle consumer lease must notify, verbally or in writing, the local law enforcement agency about the repossession. This notice may be given either by the creditor or its repossession company. The notice must include the creditor’s and borrower’s name, the name of the repossession company (if one is used), and a description of the motor vehicle being repossessed. A person who intentionally violates this provision may be fined not more than $500, an exception to the general maximum fine of $2,000 found in s. 425.401, Stats.

     

    Redemption Requirements:

    Fifteen (15) day redemption.

    Deficiency Requirements:

    Wisconsin has strict requirements, so we recommend contacting a local repossession agent.

    Special Motor Vehicle Provisions:

    Certificate of Title bears lien.

    Documents Required to Transfer Ownership of Motor Vehicle:

    Title in lienholder's name or certificate of title with lien release; certification of repossession on approved state form.

     

    Documents Required for Liquidation:

    Title, Repossession Affidavit, and Copy of Contract.

     

    Plates:

    Remain with the owner / debtor.

     

    Recovery requirements and fees are current as of 2007.

    "That's just my opinion, then again I might be wrong."  Dennis Miller

     

  • Sun, Sep 20 2009 5:01 PM In reply to

    • mainteddi
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    • WI
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    Re: Repossession Questions

    Ok I am new to all this and very confused and stupid at the moment I am sorry.  But don't this statement from the Recovery requirements under Act 255 say they have to give me notice.

    1. A statement that, as a result of the customer’s default on the consumer credit transaction, the merchant may have the right to take possession of the collateral or goods without further notice or court proceeding.

    I have not a clue who the man was that came to my door he had no paper work.  Just a little slip of paper that said the make, model and color of my truck.  That was in handwriting with other scribbled notes on the piece of paper. 

    I am just confused and at a loss right now.  I am sorry if I am not understanding all this correctly.  But I would like to thank all of you for your help.

     

  • Sun, Sep 20 2009 5:03 PM In reply to

    • mainteddi
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    Re: Repossession Questions

    Here is that statement from the Recovery act 255 sorry I cut it off in the previous post.

    Act 255 establishes a new method by which a merchant may take possession of motor vehicle collateral or goods subject to a motor vehicle consumer lease without undertaking judicial proceedings, often referred to as self-help repossession. To do so, a merchant must mail (either by certified or registered mail) to the customer a notice that, among other things, includes the following information:


    1. A statement that, as a result of the customer’s default on the consumer credit transaction, the merchant may have the right to take possession of the collateral or goods without further notice or court proceeding.

     

  • Sun, Sep 20 2009 5:12 PM In reply to

    Re: Repossession Questions

    The bank is going to produce letters that they have mailed.  Ignored any notices from the bank lately?  Thrown out anything that you thought was junk mail that MIGHT have been those letters? Have you moved where they might have sent it to an old address?  Certified letters don't require a signature.  They just have a serial number through the Post Office. 

    The other issue is Act 255 also applies to smaller merchants and is for "self help reposession" your loan contract is going to spell out the terms under which they can take the truck.  You need to read your loan contract.  It may give them the right to take it without the Replevin Judgement or Act 255. 

    Either way under WI law you have 15 days to redeem the truck.  You need to call the bank tomorrow morning and I can guarantee you it isn't going to be one payment you need to come up with to get the truck back.  Be prepared for a large sum of money.  More than likely under the terms of your loan they can demand the full loan due to redeem it.  You also have towing and storage fees as well which will add up to several hundred dollars.

    "That's just my opinion, then again I might be wrong."  Dennis Miller

     

  • Sun, Sep 20 2009 5:16 PM In reply to

    Re: Repossession Questions

    mainteddi:
    But don't this statement from the Recovery requirements under Act 255 say they have to give me notice. 1. A statement that, as a result of the customer’s default on the consumer credit transaction, the merchant may have the right to take possession of the collateral or goods without further notice or court proceeding.

    First of all, instead of reading an internet summary, you have to read the actual statute, because it's a lot more involved than just that sentence.

    Second, did you receive a late notice when you couldn't make the payment? Might have been included in that notice. Did you throw the notice away? Did you duck any certified or registered mail in the last 25 days?

    Here's the exact wording of the statutes regarding the "statement":

     

    • 425.205(1g)(a)   &amp...
      (a) A merchant may not take possession of motor vehicle collateral or goods subject to a motor vehicle consumer lease under s. 425.206 (1) (d), unless the merchant gives, by mail, the customer a notice containing all of the following information:

      425.205(1g)(a)1.   &amp...
      1. The name, address, and telephone number of the merchant, a brief identification of the consumer credit transaction, and a brief description of the collateral or goods.

      425.205(1g)(a)2.   &amp...
      2. A statement that, as a result of the customer's default on the consumer credit transaction, the merchant may have the right to take possession of the collateral or goods without further notice or court proceeding.

      425.205(1g)(a)3.   &amp...
      3. A statement that if the customer is not in default or objects to the merchant's right to take possession of the collateral or goods, the customer may, no later than 15 days after the merchant has given the notice, demand that the merchant proceed in court by notifying the merchant in writing.

      425.205(1g)(a)4.   &amp...
      4. A statement that if the merchant proceeds in court, the customer may be required to pay court costs and attorney fees.

      425.205(1g)(b)   &amp...
      (b) The information required under par. (a) may be combined with any other notice, except that if the customer has a right to cure under s. 425.105, the information required under par. (a) shall be combined with the notice of right to cure under s. 425.104.

      425.205(1g)(c)   &amp...
      (c) A merchant is presumed to have given notice under par. (a) if the merchant sent the notice by certified or registered mail. A merchant who fails to give notice under par. (a) by certified or registered mail is subject to the penalties specified in s. 425.302 (1), but such failure does not constitute a failure to comply with s. 425.206 (1) (d).

     

     

    Seems to me that if the bank has a record of sending you notice, the bank's complied with the statute even if you say you didn't get it.

    You might check with the bank and ask about that notice and how they complied with the statute.

     

    • The right of the people 
    • to keep and bear arms,
    • shall not be infringed.
  • Sun, Sep 20 2009 5:25 PM In reply to

    • mainteddi
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    Re: Repossession Questions

    Nope have not moved at all.  I don't ignor my mail at all and I have made it a habbit to open all pieces of mail I recieve no matter what it is.  Do to a past oops of throwing a check away that I recieved it taught me a good lesson to open any and all mail.   

    Well either way I am at a loss with it.  I will have to come up with the money some how to get it back.

    I will contact the bank in the morning to see how much and what I have to do to get it back. 

    Thanks again for everyones help.

  • Sun, Sep 20 2009 5:40 PM In reply to

    • mainteddi
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    Re: Repossession Questions

    adjuster jack I would like to thank you for your help your info is making since to me. 

    I have not avoided any certified or registered mail in the past 25 days.  I wish I could say I have cuz then this all would make since to me.  I have never gotten anything from the bank other than when I first got the loan they sent me the loan payment book. 

    The only thing I can think of is where I live we don't have the best of mail man and our mail gets messed up a lot.  Such as I get my neighbors mail and other peoples mail and god only knows where mine is if someone else gets it.  Some are nice and bring it to you and some well they probley throw it out.  Who knows.

    I will be putting a call into the bank in the morning to see what I can do and see if they did send anything out.  But I am sure they will say they did. 

    Thanks again

  • Mon, Sep 21 2009 3:09 PM In reply to

    • mainteddi
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    Re: Repossession Questions

    So I called the bank today.  No letter was ever sent out to us at all from the bank.  First the lady said yes there was let her check her computer for the exact date.  Then she came back and said um no there was never a letter sent out about your debt that you owed us.  So now what do I do because they didn't have the right to come and repossess the truck at all yesterday according to the Wisconsin law. 

    Also on our loan papers it says under

    #5 Repossession- under 425.206(1)(d), wis. stats., I have a right to a court hearing on the issue of default before any repossession of any collateral, but  by surrendering the collateral, I waive such right.

    So where do I go from here can anyone help?

  • Mon, Sep 21 2009 7:59 PM In reply to

    Re: Repossession Questions

    mainteddi:
    So I called the bank today. No letter was ever sent out to us at all from the bank. First the lady said yes there was let her check her computer for the exact date. Then she came back and said um no there was never a letter sent out about your debt that you owed us. So now what do I do because they didn't have the right to come and repossess the truck at all yesterday according to the Wisconsin law.

    Unfortunately, the deed was done.

    You might have a little leverage against the bank due to the penalties involved:

       &nbs...
    425.302 Remedy and penalty for certain violations.  

    425.302(1)   &nbs...
    (1) A person who commits a violation to which this section applies is liable to the customer in an amount equal to:
    425.302(1)(a)   &nbs...
    (a) Twenty-five dollars; and

    425.302(1)(b)   &nbs...
    (b) The actual damages, including any incidental and consequential damages, sustained by the customer by reason of the violation.

    Not much leverage because, of course, you'd have to sue the bank, and by the time you spent the time and money on the lawsuit your vehicle would be long gone anyway. You might try pointing out the statutory penalties to somebody at the bank with the authority to get you your vehicle back and possible waive some of the fees. Trouble is, you will still have to come up with two payments by now. And if you can't come up with two payments you are done. If you can come up with the two payments you might have something to talk about with the bank.
    mainteddi:
    Repossession- under 425.206(1)(d), wis. stats., I have a right to a court hearing on the issue of default before any repossession of any collateral, but by surrendering the collateral, I waive such right.
    I don't see that in 425.206(1)(d)
    mainteddi:
    So where do I go from here can anyone help?
    Frankly, your best and most practical solution is to come up with all the money that it takes to redeem the vehicle. Then you can just sue the bank in small claims court for the expenses beyond just the payments. Serving a summons and complaint after you have the vehicle back put you on the offensive and the bank might decide it's cheaper to reimburse you that to pay for an attorney. Right now, if you just continue to talk to the bank clerks who don't give a carp, you'll pass the deadline and lose the vehicle. Then if you want to go to court, it will be a lot more than small claims and you'll need to pay a lawyer which might cost you thousands out of pocket before you'd ever see a nickel.


    • The right of the people 
    • to keep and bear arms,
    • shall not be infringed.
  • Tue, Sep 22 2009 1:31 PM In reply to

    • mudpie
      Consumer
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    Re: Repossession Questions

    Or you can file a police report and complaint against the bank and repo company for auto theft since the bank admitted that no action was initiated or notice sent. The bank will probably spend more defending its actions than the missing car payment.

    Did you ever think that maybe the bank never initiated a repo and the repo guy was a fake and really stole your car?

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