Record Accounting for Survivor's Trust and home

Previous | Next
 rated by 0 users
Latest post 12-25-2009 9:51 PM by majesty. 3 replies.
  • 12-17-2009 4:58 AM

    • majesty
      Consumer
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 06-05-2007
    • CA
    • Posts 305

    Record Accounting for Survivor's Trust and home

    California. An AB Living Trust, and the first spouse dies, the Survivor's retains her community property interest in her Surivivors Trust with general power of appointment, and all the income from all the properties for life for her support and maintainance etc. When an accounting is done for the benefit of the beneficiaries, is the home that she lives in have to be included in the accounting? 

    The Trustee is claiming that he requires Survivor's permssion and consent. Since the Survivor's Trust is revocable, and be can be amened, etc, is that true?  Since the home is one of the several properties included in the Trust, and she does not actually own it in her own name at this time since she has not revoked the Surivivors Trust, seems to me that the financials have to be included along with all the other assets of the Trust. 

     

     

  • 12-17-2009 12:09 PM In reply to

    • Drew
      Consumer
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 03-30-2000
    • PA
    • Posts 49,404

    Re: Record Accounting for Survivor's Trust and home

    Laymans take:

    You seem to be asking if trustee needs to account for an asset that may or may not be intrust at some future date due to potential election  powers by somebody?

    So pose it to trust counsel! You sure seem to have enough questions----- bet you can provide a lifetime of bills for a good CA estate attorney

    My lay guess is if its in the trust for now then it must be accounted for---but details are probably in a footnote or obfuscated .

    If trustee must account for it for tax purposes its probably there to account for accounting purposes.

    Have no clue about need for survivors consent.

    But if trust owns say a fractional interest in home on  Main St with some  as yet unexercised and unexpired appointment rights I'll bet trustee can disclose the Main St  asset but not tell anything of real use abou t it?



  • 12-17-2009 9:50 PM In reply to

    • majesty
      Consumer
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 06-05-2007
    • CA
    • Posts 305

    Re: Record Accounting for Survivor's Trust and home

    Drew:
    Laymans take: You seem to be asking if trustee needs to account for an asset that may or may not be intrust at some future date due to potential election powers by somebody? So pose it to trust counsel! You sure seem to have enough questions----- bet you can provide a lifetime of bills for a good CA estate attorney My lay guess is if its in the trust for now then it must be accounted for---but details are probably in a footnote or obfuscated . If trustee must account for it for tax purposes its probably there to account for accounting purposes. Have no clue about need for survivors consent. But if trust owns say a fractional interest in home on Main St with some as yet unexercised and unexpired appointment rights I'll bet trustee can disclose the Main St asset but not tell anything of real use abou t it?


    The home is in the Family Trust, and I don't believe there have been any appointments since the spouse as recently passed away, thus, the Trustee is required to provide an annual accounting or additional accounting upon reasonable request, thus, as I understand it, that means every 6 months.  I have requested and accounting for 2009 to occur after 2009 in a timely manner, which would be since November.  My guess is that Trustee will wait for at least 6 months. Thanks




  • 12-25-2009 9:51 PM In reply to

    • majesty
      Consumer
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 06-05-2007
    • CA
    • Posts 305

    Re: Record Accounting for Survivor's Trust and home

    Drew:
    Laymans take: My lay guess is if its in the trust for now then it must be accounted for---but details are probably in a footnote or obfuscated . If trustee must account for it for tax purposes its probably there to account for accounting purposes. Have no clue about need for survivors consent. But if trust owns say a fractional interest in home on Main St with some as yet unexercised and unexpired appointment rights I'll bet trustee can disclose the Main St asset but not tell anything of real use abou t it?


    CA - Regarding conscent from Mom Survivor for an accounting of her home placed the AB Trust, with her having  general power of appointmen, the following appears to require her consent: 

    Probate Code 16064.  The trustee is not required to report information or account to a beneficiary in any of the following circumstances:
       (a) To the extent the trust instrument waives the report or account, except that no waiver described in subdivision (e) of Section 16062 shall be valid or enforceable.  Regardless of a waiver of accounting in the trust instrument, upon a showing that it is reasonably likely that a material breach of the trust has occurred, the court may compel the trustee to report information about the trust and to account.
       (b) In the case of a beneficiary of a revocable trust, as provided in Section 15800, for the period when the trust may be revoked.
       (c) As to a beneficiary who has waived in writing the right to a report or account.  A waiver of rights under this subdivision may be withdrawn in writing at any time as to the most recent account and future accounts.  A waiver has no effect on the beneficiary's right to petition for a report or account pursuant to Section 17200.
       (d) Where the beneficiary and the trustee are the same person.


    Probate Code 15802.  Notwithstanding any other statute, during the time that a trust is revocable and the person holding the power to revoke the trust is competent, a notice that is to be given to a beneficiary shall be given to the person holding the power to revoke and not to the beneficiary.

    (Due to AB Trust, Survivor Mom has community property interest in all the real properties, it appears that her home will go into the revocable Survivors Trust, thus, it appears that she has to give conscent for any of the beneficiaries to have an accounting of her home, and/or perhaps other real properties)  

    However, since Survivor Mom states that she wants us to inherit her home, and Trustee inherit the home I am living in, and the Trustee is not acting on her request due to a 400K conflict of interest due to the different values of the homes, would the following exception apply? 

    15804.  b) If a conflict of interest involving the subject matter of the trust proceeding exists between a person to whom notice is required to be given and a person to whom notice is not otherwise required to be given under subdivision (a), notice shall also be given to persons  not otherwise entitled to notice under subdivision (a) with respect to whom the conflict of interest exists.

    What is a trust proceeding...does that mean a court proceeding?

Page 1 of 1 (4 items) | RSS

My Community

Community Membership New Users: Search Community